Page 19 of 30
Re: IOF 315 rifle and cartridge
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 1:48 pm
by TwoRivers
Vikram: 1. Britain bans the use of .303 (and .450) caliber sporting rifles in India and the Sudan.
2. As a consequence, BSA, and other makers, who have been producing .303 rifles on the Lee action, lost that market.
3. They look for a cartridge of similar power that will work in the Lee, and is loaded in England. The 8x50R/.315 Mannlicher is a good match; British makers start to build Lee rifles chambered for the .315. 4. IOF starts production of sporting rifles on the Lee action in the 1960s, the old prohibition is still in force.
5. IOF does what the British makers did. Obosolete everywhere else, the 8x50R Mannlicher is reborn (or should I say reincarnated) as the .315 India; as the cartridge had proven itself in the Lee action and is a bit better performer than the .303.
Trust me, it's the same cartridge. If you stop by, I'll sell you ten nice red and yellow boxes of it. The fellow whom I sold the rifle to, didn't want solids and only took the softpoints. Probably didn't intend to shoot it much since it had a poor bore; and I haven't gotten around to building another one. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; it most likely is a duck.
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:27 pm
by shahid
Asif ( Eljefe ) had posted drawings of the cartridge dimensions which match, in this post above. IOF may have made minor adjustments here and there to confirm to their tooling equipment but beyond doubt this is what it is, 8 x 50 R.
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:51 pm
by Lawman
penpusher";p="47205 wrote:
.315 with a reloading kit does make a lot of sense.
What is the reloading kit for IOF .315? Where it is available ?
Lawman
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:02 pm
by shahid
Are bullets for the .315 available anywhere, what size.
Does anyone have reloading instructions for a .315 cartridge, and what kind of Powder is being used.
Is there a means to improve the IOF primer as well ?
Are cases of this isze also available to releaders ?
Re: IOF 30-06 Rifle
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:57 pm
by penpusher
No kits are available.You just have to innovate.The purpose is not to reload empty cartridges but to take apart live ammo and reload it to get a more consistent performance than is there in factory ammo.
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:17 am
by shahid
Powder is being incresed to 4 cartridges from 5 opened ?
What about the bullet ? Does anyone have a die to cast better bullets ?
is there 8 mm x 50 bullets available in FMJ or any modern bullet designs from Norma or Hornady ?
No modern cartridge maker from among S & B, RWS, Lapua, Kynoch or anyone else in Europe is making bullets or cartridges of 8 mm x 50 R of course no American maker makes them but does someone make bullets to fit the case of Indian IOF .315 ? An improved bullet can sufficiently increase downrange results.
Re: IOF 30-06 Rifle
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:54 pm
by penpusher
The objective is not to increase the charge.That would be stupid.It is to have a more uniform charge.The components of the diss-assembled cartridge would be re-used.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:15 am
by eljefe
In reloading metallic cartridges, charge is increased by amounts ranging from 0.5 to 1 grain and regulated.
The ' 5 by 4 ' concept was / may be still is, popular with shotgunners here in India. dangerous to the extreme.
8 mm FMJ is made by several manufacturers internationally, but COL of the Indian 315 will have to be reconfirmed and seating die adjusted accordingly, to enable the 'remanufactured'cartridge to chamber.
You'll need a puller-a fine example is made by quinetics
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:27 am
by shahid
Thats what, I know a lot of 8 mm bullets are available but a good core locked bullet to sit on this cartridge. Thats what I was wondering about. If it needs rework then the expertise of a good reloader must be at hand.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:01 pm
by z375
shahid";p="47278 wrote:Thats what, I know a lot of 8 mm bullets are available but a good core locked bullet to sit on this cartridge. Thats what I was wondering about. If it needs rework then the expertise of a good reloader must be at hand.
Shahid,
With a little careful tweaking of factory ammo, correct bedding and a good, sturdy scope set-up, the IOF 315 is capable of very surprising accuracy. I had the opportunity to work upon and mess around with a friend’s newly-bought rifle and after the results I was seriously contemplating buying one for myself! The factory loaded ammo is loaded with anywhere between 39 to 42 grains of a granular ball powder, variation of this degree can produce erratic results. I’ve clocked the factory loads at between 1985 to 2100fps on the chrony, regulating the loads and keeping the velocity to about 2150fps with the 244gr slug will make those who cuss this cartridge, eat their words!
If you do want to use good projectiles for your rifle, I suggest that you first slug the bore, if that's not possible, mike the factory loaded projectiles and then decide, as there is also a .
318 inch projectile available for the J-bore mausers, do not use these, there’s a .323 inch for the JS-bores, this is what you’ll need. I did want to find out what she’d do with lighter stuff so I used .323 inch (8mm) 180-grain Speers and 200-grain Sierra Boattails. I could safely push the 180-grainers to 2460fps and the 200-grain Boattails to 2395fps, the Sierras produced superb 100 yard groups and the Speers were respectable for all practical purposes. The Sierras were probably better due to the weight and the SD being not too far off from the original factory load for which the rifle’s rate of twist was given. Hand-loading this cartridge is a whole bunch of fun, if you can pull it off properly and safely, the end results will have you smiling.
Just my 02 cents…
Zubin
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:58 pm
by shahid
Hi Zubin,
Interesting stuff.
Since I am not in a position to devote much time to handloading, if you and your friends can handload some ammo for me say about 20 to 25 rounds I would be much grateful.
It should chamberin a normal IOF .315 without any mods.
And of course you or your friend are fully entitled to charge a premium price for these rounds for your expertise and the work/ imported bullets involved.
Re: IOF 30-06 Rifle
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:23 pm
by MoA
hahid,
With a little careful tweaking of factory ammo, correct bedding and a good, sturdy scope set-up, the IOF 315 is capable of very surprising accuracy. I had the opportunity to work upon and mess around with a friend’s newly-bought rifle and after the results I was seriously contemplating buying one for myself! The factory loaded ammo is loaded with anywhere between 39 to 42 grains of a granular ball powder, variation of this degree can produce erratic results. I’ve clocked the factory loads at between 1985 to 2100fps on the chrony, regulating the loads and keeping the velocity to about 2150fps with the 244gr slug will make those who cuss this cartridge, eat their words!
If you do want to use good projectiles for your rifle, I suggest that you first slug the bore, if that's not possible, mike the factory loaded projectiles and then decide, as there is also a .318 inch projectile available for the J-bore mausers, do not use these, there’s a .323 inch for the JS-bores, this is what you’ll need. I did want to find out what she’d do with lighter stuff so I used .323 inch (8mm) 180-grain Speers and 200-grain Sierra Boattails. I could safely push the 180-grainers to 2460fps and the 200-grain Boattails to 2395fps, the Sierras produced superb 100 yard groups and the Speers were respectable for all practical purposes. The Sierras were probably better due to the weight and the SD being not too far off from the original factory load for which the rifle’s rate of twist was given. Hand-loading this cartridge is a whole bunch of fun, if you can pull it off properly and safely, the end results will have you smiling.
Just my 02 cents…
Zubin
Zubin,
Where did you get the Speer/Sierra/et al?
How did you measure the powder? What powder did you use?
How uch powder was in the case originally?
How did you reseat the bullets?
Where are you buying your gear from? I am certain a number of my friends would be very interested in getting this stuff.
I am assuming at this stage you do know what you're doing, because what you have posted is essentially an excellent recepie to blow your self up.
Cheers...
Re: IOF 30-06 Rifle
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:15 am
by eljefe
MoA";p="47464 wrote:hahid,
With a little careful tweaking of factory ammo, correct bedding and a good, sturdy scope set-up, the IOF 315 is capable of very surprising accuracy. I had the opportunity to work upon and mess around with a friend’s newly-bought rifle and after the results I was seriously contemplating buying one for myself! The factory loaded ammo is loaded with anywhere between 39 to 42 grains of a granular ball powder, variation of this degree can produce erratic results. I’ve clocked the factory loads at between 1985 to 2100fps on the chrony, regulating the loads and keeping the velocity to about 2150fps with the 244gr slug will make those who cuss this cartridge, eat their words!
If you do want to use good projectiles for your rifle, I suggest that you first slug the bore, if that's not possible, mike the factory loaded projectiles and then decide, as there is also a .318 inch projectile available for the J-bore mausers, do not use these, there’s a .323 inch for the JS-bores, this is what you’ll need. Idid want to find out what she’d do with lighter stuff so I used .323 inch (8mm) 180-grain Speers and 200-grain Sierra Boattails. I could safely push the 180-grainers to 2460fps and the 200-grain Boattails to 2395fps, the Sierras produced superb 100 yard groups and the Speers were respectable for all practical purposes. The Sierras were probably better due to the weight and the SD being not too far off from the original factory load for which the rifle’s rate of twist was given. Hand-loading this cartridge is a whole bunch of fun, if you can pull it off properly and safely, the end results will have you smiling.
Just my 02 cents…
Zubin
Zubin,
Where did you get the Speer/Sierra/et al?
How did you measure the powder? What powder did you use?
How uch powder was in the case originally?
How did you reseat the bullets?
Where are you buying your gear from? I am certain a number of my friends would be very interested in getting this stuff.
I am assuming at this stage you do know what you're doing, because what you have posted is essentially an excellent recepie to blow your self up.
Cheers...
MoA ,
Actually Zubin doesent know jack shit-just trying to post mass hysteria...read the 'recipe for disaster' a bit closely, will definitely give you an insight into what he's doing-I dont see your name quoted anywhere in the last speer reloading manual sitting here with me
and your 'assumptions' are letting the S/N ratio go very close to ZERO...
Why do your friends want an excellent 'recipe for disaster', when you can give them 'better' stuff...
Re: IOF 30-06 Rifle
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:48 am
by MoA
Eljefe,
I was talking about Sierra/Speer bullets, press, dies etc... didnt know they were available in India.
I am sure if a dealer is able to source the bullets, then logically the rest of the equipment should be available as well.
Why would my name be quoted in the speer manual? Did I say it was?
Nor do I share my recipies with my firends unless they are shooting the same caliber. Even then what works for me might not work for them. Every rifle behaves differently.
Re: IOF 30-06 Rifle
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:42 am
by eljefe
Its not like you can walk into any neighbourhood gunsmith and pick up stuff off the rack...the last gunshop i walked into [to buy some lead buck shot for fishing ]
was stocking cell phones, with not a gun in sight-go figger!no, he did'nt have the buckshot either.
The situation is very fluid , demand far outstrips supply , and I have , for example, been quoted Rs.500 per round, for a brit double-not a very obscure caliber at that- 11 USD! its not A square custom ammo...