What to say to the cops

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mundaire
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What to say to the cops

Post by mundaire » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:54 am

Some interesting advice from Gabe Suarez (of Suarez International):
AFTER-ACTION DISCOURSE - WHAT TO SAY TO THE COPS

One of the things that is incessantly being discussed in the CCW/LEO community is the after-event-discourse. In other words, what do you say...or not, after you have whacked an attacker. As expected, the variety of advice is as different as people's choices in guns and ammo. A prevailing attitude is to simply shut up and say nothing under any circumstances. I disagree and here is why -

I have been in more than a few of these and also investigated quite a few of these. I noted some trends and tried to use those trends to my benefits when it was my turn at the plate.

First is the fact that the bad guys will not be "keeping quiet". They will be telling the cops you pulled your gun on them, perhaps create some appearance of racism if they can exploit it, and generally make it look like you are the over-reacting, racist, bad guy. What happened may not be obvious to the cops who come out to investigate...specially if the majority of witnesses are against you.

So picture this scene. Two guys have been, as we used to say, "eye f*cking you", and followed you for some time, maybe yelling threatening stuff at you. While you did your best to avoid the issue, you were unsuccessful in getting away and they pressed the confrontation, attacking you with sufficient force to justify a gun solution.

You shoot one of them, maybe wounding him - maybe killing him, and the other one runs off into the night. You saw the first man drop his pistol in a clump of ivy and the other man throw his knife on a rooftop as he ran away.

You immediately call 911 and give a very cryptic account of what happened..."there has been a shooting...I'm the victim...send help".

In the meantime, one of the assailants...the one who got away, is also calling. His story is a little different. According to him you called them "Dirty Ghetto Norwegians", and pulled your gun on them, shooting his buddy. As far as the police know...they got two calls. One a cryptic call, from someone who seemed to be concealing something, and another reporting what amounts to a racial hate crime by a right wing Nazi.

They arrive on scene and after controlling the event, ask you what happened. What you do now will have a bearing on the rest of your life.

The guys who advocate saying nothing will not be able to point to the two weapons which were discarded...and which will disappear as soon as the scene is cleared. The police may not even look for them since no one told them they were in existence. No one will tell them you are a good guy who was a victim of an attempted robbery, as the ONLY info paints you as some KKK wannabe.

Sure...you'll have a lawyer...but all of the evidence the police may have collected will no longer be available, and the investigation will not have been an even and equal one, but rather one where you alone are the suspect.

See the point?? I know a man who did just that...kept his mouth shut because of what a shooting instructor advised him to do and he spent several weeks in jail, had two criminal trials, and is now facing a civil suit from one of his attackers.

Is it hard to control your mouth? Yes it is. But no harder than to control your trigger finger, your desire to drink to excess, or to control the vertical displacement of your zipper. On self control, it is a learned thing and must be practiced daily. Maybe self control is too hard for the modern, self-indulgent, metro-sexual male, but as the Nike commercial said....Just Do It.

It, like many other things, can be trained and developed. If you ignore it, it will never be developed.

Think in these terms...you train gun handling and shooting skills to make them reflexive in the most stressful event someone is ever likely to face....and we tend to do fine. The guys who never train...thinking they will "rise to the occasion" invariably fail. To say, "I will simply say nothing", is in that same line of thinking is it not?

What I have done, with success, is this. I give a very limited statement, focusing on the actions of the bad guys, and them excuse myself from any further questions until my mouthpiece...I mean, attorney, arrives.
Anything I say focuses on what the bad guy(s) have done and not on what I may have done. Something like this -

"Officer. I am glad you are here. Thank God."

"I am a good guy. I was minding my own business on my way home when those two guys attacked me."

"The one in the blue shirt had a knife. He threw it up there on the roof as he ran away. There should be some blood on it from my arm when I blocked his attempt to stab me."

"The guy on the gurney was armed with a pistol. He dropped it right there in that pile of ivy when he fell."

"I was terrified. I am still terrified. Boy am I glad you guys are here. "

"Listen...I am still a little shaken up. I want to cooperate with you guys. This has never happened to me (or this hasn't happened in a while). I have heard stories of good guys getting sued later for saying too much. My attorney is on his way and as soon as he arrives I will be happy to give a full statement with him there. Until then, I think I need to sit down and calm my blood pressure."

At that point things are no longer in your control but you have set the investigation on the proper course, and the truth will be determined instead of being overlooked.

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Re: What to say to the cops

Post by sa_ali » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:20 pm

This is more relevant in indian context, as you never know the other might do a self inflict and lodge a counter FIR against you.
So one should be the first one to report it and with all clarity, never think that the other person has ran away so its over, unfortunately its not over as most of the time these criminal have better link and better understanding of the system :) as they deal with it more than we do :wink: and they report the incidence, which at time is used by the police to harass the normal citizen more.

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Re: What to say to the cops

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:23 pm

I agree with sa_ali. In India things are much more complex and murky, involving vested interests of criminal/mafia and police nexus. Not only we hear cases where wounds are self inflicted or got done under anesthetic by some medical professional, they also manage to get "medical certificates" from government hospitals certifying the same to be submitted in court.
But regardless of all this, you definitely need to speak and tell truth not only to police and lawyers but also to all those who can help so that matter does not get twisted against you by the vested interests involved.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: What to say to the cops

Post by savage » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:07 am

this happend to me some tym ago and the guys broke their own arms and lodged a fir against me i had no other choice rather than apologise and request them to withdraw the fit but i dont get mad at them cause its the systems fault.....

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Re: What to say to the cops

Post by SARGE7402 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:24 am

When talking to a cop (at least here in the good old USofA) there are a couple of things you might want to consider.

a. Was it a good shoot?
b. Did you do everything in your power to de escalate the situation?
c. Did anything you did or say cause the situation to get worse (before you had to shoot)?
d. Did you do everything that your training said you were supposed to do(time permitting)?
e. Did the person you shot present a clear and immediate danger to your safety or life? If the answer to this is no and you've still put a bullet in him/her (or even close by), Now would be an excellent time to close your mouth, wait for your lawyer and take their advice.
f. Did you immediately call in the incident (even if no shot's were fired)? First one to call (here in the states at least) is presumed at least initially to be the victim.
g. Did you flee the scene? Flight is usually seen as a sign of guilt. Guilt a strong indication that you've done something wrong. However, if there's a mob of 40 or so of the victims's friends relatives all with some form of weapon looking to rip you limb from limb, by all means leave the immediate area. But by all means refer back to F. and call the police.

One thing that we are seeing in some departments is the use of small digital recorders in officer's pockets. These record a whole shift. They are especially great in that they can be on your person at all times and will record with exceptional clarity what occurs. Makes it very difficult for the "victim" to claim he was an innocent bystander when you have his voice on tape screaming he's gonig to kill you.

Hope this gives you some food for thought.

Yes, I've been a sworn peace officer for over 14 years and had to use my service weapon at least five times during that period.
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’

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Re: What to say to the cops

Post by indigo_indo » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:22 pm

in fact we live in a world where there are human right activists for the rights of criminals and to hang a person who attacked parliament and mumbai under guidance from their motivators in pakistan are enjoying loop holes in law and each and every possible so called secularism and peace motif...

ridiculing our own self integrity and there is no one speaking for the epople who were their victims and no one caring for the hillarious act they did and eunechs like shivraj patil who once when asked about hanging afjal guru compared him to sarabjeet who is facing possible hanging in pakistani jail .. " said " if people are demanding mercy for sarabjeet :they why mercy be denied to afjal guru " ...

wel in mi opinion where each and every person is for sale in india right from kalmadi , raja , rath , or raadia .... tis better not to be get killed and pay the price to worthy cops as they deserve kickbacks for your freedom ... never get killed , and better kill .. no one gonna weep for you.... or raise a hue for the demise for a death of a common man , the human rights in india are for inhumans and criminals only and not for law abiding citizens...

if a murderer of indira gandhi can ecade gallows for the more than a decade... i think you are still better to live and not to die...

So my pals be prepared to live and not to die thinking about the consequences and litigation you may face after you dare.....

still ur family will be at a gainers end...
If you want peace ; you have to be prepared for war.....

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Re: What to say to the cops

Post by dr.jayakumar » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:11 am

indigo_indo wrote:in fact we live in a world where there are human right activists for the rights of criminals and to hang a person who attacked parliament and mumbai under guidance from their motivators in pakistan are enjoying loop holes in law and each and every possible so called secularism and peace motif...

ridiculing our own self integrity and there is no one speaking for the epople who were their victims and no one caring for the hillarious act they did and eunechs like shivraj patil who once when asked about hanging afjal guru compared him to sarabjeet who is facing possible hanging in pakistani jail .. " said " if people are demanding mercy for sarabjeet :they why mercy be denied to afjal guru " ...

wel in mi opinion where each and every person is for sale in india right from kalmadi , raja , rath , or raadia .... tis better not to be get killed and pay the price to worthy cops as they deserve kickbacks for your freedom ... never get killed , and better kill .. no one gonna weep for you.... or raise a hue for the demise for a death of a common man , the human rights in india are for inhumans and criminals only and not for law abiding citizens...

if a murderer of indira gandhi can ecade gallows for the more than a decade... i think you are still better to live and not to die...

So my pals be prepared to live and not to die thinking about the consequences and litigation you may face after you dare.....

still ur family will be at a gainers end...
i agree.as long as corrupt officials and politicians are there,human rights will be used for criminals only.

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Re: What to say to the cops

Post by Subal das » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:42 am

effective punishment can have tremendous effect on crime control. One of modern example of such effectiveness is Turkmenistan. When Turkmenistan got separated from Soviet Union law and order situation there was complete hell. They were able to fix it in few months, they simply shot the guys caught with doing crime in place. I did not advocating anything, that example just illustrate how much effective punishment system (country wise) important to control crime. In neighboring republics of Unbekhistan and Kirgisthan and Kazakhistan it is still same. Gun control in fact better in reverse Control of Gun. Question of leadership I guess...
"Loose lips sink ships"
"Curiosity kill the cat"

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