Indians For Guns

shahid wrote:The new stocks are varnished in Purple. Yes Deep Purple. Horror of horrors !

PURPLE ???

Now this is something I gotta see !! . Is it a .315 or a .22 rifle ?

best,

RP.

Solution to poor quality ammunition is opening IOF to competition.

Yes it is Purple - Jamunia colour in tune with the current Holi season. Throwing of holi colours has already started in Bihar. We believe is prolonged festivites and a headstart over all other states.

IOF do not care about competition.

Kautavya Roy, their R & D personnel wrote on my forum - We are a Public sector enterprise. Civilian ammunition or arms production is just a charity at IOF. Our object mission is to equip the Indian Armed forces.

Only 14,000 licences are issues in India every year. Do you think we care for such peanuts ? Profits if any from Civialian arms and ammo sales go to the Prime Ministers relief fund.

With such an attitude where is the future hope for IOF to gear up to competition.

Hopeless absolutely.

One of the reasons for me wanting to shift from my .32 revolver to .32 pistol is the difference in (mainly visual) quality between the S&W and ACP IOF rounds. Just looking at the IOF S&W rounds scares me, the lead bullet is horribly non-standard between cartridges from the same box. I have had terrible experiences with these rounds too. Quite a few turned out to be duds.

At least the ACP rounds are jacketed, easier to clean and maintain.

AMK

Use imported rounds in the revolver for immediate threats and the KF for plinking... !!
Why lose the gun for the ammo ?

shahid wrote:Kautavya Roy, their R & D personnel wrote on my forum -

1)We are a Public sector enterprise. Civilian ammunition or arms production is just a charity at IOF.

2)Our object mission is to equip the Indian Armed forces.

3)Only 14,000 licences are issues in India every year. Do you think we care for such peanuts ?

4)Profits if any from Civialian arms and ammo sales go to the Prime Ministers relief fund.

Lets look at this statement

1)The charity of the IOFB is the only profit making venture of the IOFB.Sale to MOH is only at 10% profit or there about.Strange notions of charity the IOFB has.Shafting the law abiding citizens by making them pay ridiculous sums of money for shoddily made products does not constitute charity.

2)Re. equipping the Indian Army,they seem to be happy buying Trevor's and copies of AK's from the international market.The INSAS has been a disappointment.The carbine and machine gun version even more than the rifle.At one time the IOF had something like 75% wastage of brass while drawing cases for the 5.56 ammo.The CAG report lists almost as many faults as there are parts in the INSAS.It is an amalgamation of parts of a couple of rifles.It has the potential to be a good rifle,if only the jokers at RFI could figure out how to make it.Other arms of the IOFB are just copies of arms of other manufacturers 105mm gun(British)SLR(FN.They even successfully sued the IOFB for copyright infringement)9mm carbine(Sterling) LMG 7.62, MMG(FN)9mm pistol(FN)Assault rifle 7.62(AK.It got Michael Kalashnikov very furious).315 (Enfield No 1 Mark 3.One of their guys even got an award for preparing the blue print of this rifle.This when blue prints for the No1 Mark 3 are in public domain and are there on the net).22 rifle (Brno) .30-06 rifle(sauer).32 revolver (Enfield).32 pistol (Colt 1903 and Browning 1910).22 revolver (S&W).

3)The IOFB sells more than 14000 rifles pistols and revolvers in a year.So this statement is inaccurate.

4)If Mr Roy's statement is true then the IOFB has been misleading the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defense as all along they have been stating that all the profit is being used to discount purchases by the armed forces.

-- Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:36 pm --

Olly wrote:Use imported rounds in the revolver for immediate threats and the KF for plinking... !!
Why lose the gun for the ammo ?

So if you are plinking with KF ammo your gun will not blow up.However if you fire it in self defence,it will explode like a hand grenade.Is your gun psychic?

That's the price to pay for choosing the IOF and KF combination in the first place... compromise on your hands and be prepared to appreciate the power of an exploding hand-grenade....

Now, for the choice between the devil and the deep sea, I think it is fair to take chances with the phoren ammo at least.... the rev has behaved itself with it till now.... so no reason not to trust it.... while the cracked cases of KF start piling up...

Olly wrote:Use imported rounds in the revolver for immediate threats and the KF for plinking... !!
Why lose the gun for the ammo ?

I use imported ammo only for carry. But I shoot a lot at the range and don't like to see an expensive gun damaged and destroyed due to shoddy carts

AMK

A simple and cost effective work around would be to procure the following:

A bullet mould (prices can be as low as US$19-20 per double cavity mould), reloading dies (~US$ 30-50 per calibre set), a hand press ($US 30), bullet puller (~US$ 15-19), a good book on reloading (~US$ 50) and a shooting chrony (~US 90 onwards). An accurate weighing scale and pair of vernier callipers can be obtained locally.

If done systematically & safely you will end up with better ammo the the el cheapo Magtechs that the dealers import into India. You will recover your investment within months from the savings made by substituting these (semi) reloads for the imported ammo you chaps are buying at INR 200+ per pop...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Where to get the primer & powder from?

AMK

Abhijeet is talking about pulling apart loaded KF ammo and reloading with cast bullets and reusing the powder.Keep in mind that it is Berdan primed.

As far as split necks are concerned,I am no expert but it can be because of i) burrs left on the case mouth(the split starts from the burr) ii) un-annealed case necks(brass work hardens) iii) brass becoming brittle due to exposure to chemicals and iv)OUT OF SPEC CHAMBERS( as a result of which the case necks expands on firing to the extent that it expands and cracks and extraction is hard)

Any one can figure out i) and ii) .However an expert can figure out iv) by just looking at the gun

This fellow is obviously no expert

Ahh, so that's what Abhi's on about. So you take the powder and primer from the KF cart; cast your own bullet and reload in imported cart cases?

I've seen a ruptured case whose rupture was in the middle of the case, not from the neck.

AMK

amk wrote:Ahh, so that's what Abhi's on about. So you take the powder and primer from the KF cart; cast your own bullet and reload in imported cart cases?

I've seen a ruptured case whose rupture was in the middle of the case, not from the neck.

AMK

You will not be able to safely remove the KF primer for reuse in an imported cartridge case. What you will be able to do is ensure:

1. Bullet weight & size is consistent
2. Choose bullet shape & weight according to application (round nose, semi-wadcutter, wadcutter etc.) - by using different moulds
3. Ensure that the powder measure is consistent
4. Ensure that cartridge case is properly resized (using the reloading dies)
5. Carefully develop a "load" which shoots best in your particular gun

I am led to believe that there maybe some dealers who have pistol primers available (in Mumbai) though I don't have any details on who/ where/ how much, in which case you can safely reprime and reuse imported brass, so all that you end up using from the KF ammo is the powder.

In fact if you can find a source for suitable primers don't forget to share the good fortune and send me a PM

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Sound like too much work I'll miss all my Saas bahu serials if I get into this and the wife (who's hates my guns in the first place) will surely make me sleep on the couch.

amk wrote:Sound like too much work I'll miss all my Saas bahu serials if I get into this and the wife (who's hates my guns in the first place) will surely make me sleep on the couch.

It's only work if you don't enjoy doing it...