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Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Discussions on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
goodboy_mentor
Posts: 2896
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby goodboy_mentor » Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:57 pm

StampMaster wrote:My intention here is to educate on the holistic picture for obtaining an AL.
My intention here is to educate on the holistic picture how the most basic human and foundational fundamental right of RKBA, has been cunningly subverted and reduced to a mere status of license(permission) from the State. All through the history of human civilization, this kind of thing has been done by those State powers whose core undeclared foundation is injustice and State terrorism. They have a guilty mind that constantly reminds them, we are doing injustice and terrorism, how shall we continue if every citizen is armed? It is a matter of survival for such crooks with criminal mentality. If this much gets into the minds of people, the job of RKBA awareness is almost 50% done. This idea of disarming citizens is based on core racist ideas coated and cloaked under various smokescreens. I had explained about Indian version of racism and its aversion to popular RKBA in another post here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23554&start=15#p232609

Someone emailed me the link to YouTube video below which shows continuous gunfire by police on unarmed and defenseless crowd like that in Jallianwala Bagh massacre. Just turn on the sound/ speakers of your PC to hear continuous gunshots. If the citizens will be armed then how will police merrily fire on people who will be able to defend themselves? This question continuously foxes these kind of cruel powers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYVdOtTRMMo


"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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veeveeaar
Posts: 224
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Location: Tamilnadu

Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby veeveeaar » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:21 pm

Friends as per the court orders ( sorry about the precise number, and date, it is mentioned in the Arms act and Rules book) the application has to be decided in 90 days.
I wonder why our friends do not take the burden of getting one and reading them thoroughly.
After 90 days, file a reminder and see that you send all correspondence by Registered post.
Avoid personal correspondence as much as possible.



ngrewal
Posts: 2927
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Location: US

Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby ngrewal » Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:50 am

Good luck Ankur be calm patient and persistent, there are always folks in the system who do the right thing, there have to be how else the system is still working. :roll: ..wishing you the best and be safe

Cheers



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nagarifle
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Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby nagarifle » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:47 am

i am anti gun person myself, and believe only i should be armed, that way everyone will obey me. if you get more guns then me then i will have to treat you with a little care. well gooonda babus are like that, you just have to have a bigger stick to thrash them with.


Nagarifle

if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.

aadhaulya
Posts: 1174
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Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby aadhaulya » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:29 am

nagarifle wrote:i am anti gun person myself, and believe only i should be armed, that way everyone will obey me. if you get more guns then me then i will have to treat you with a little care. well gooonda babus are like that, you just have to have a bigger stick to thrash them with.


This is a strange situation. I believe normally this does not happen, most of the people get their licenses in the normal course. Or maybe not normal but a little bit of running around (that also should not be required) or maybe it is easier in a commissionerate, because the Police is involved till the end and if the SHO clears it there is no stopping till the top. Whereas, in the older system, where even if the police clears it, they file can stop at the DM office.

Atul



ankur_ank007
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Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby ankur_ank007 » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:07 pm

aadhaulya wrote:
nagarifle wrote:i am anti gun person myself, and believe only i should be armed, that way everyone will obey me. if you get more guns then me then i will have to treat you with a little care. well gooonda babus are like that, you just have to have a bigger stick to thrash them with.


This is a strange situation. I believe normally this does not happen, most of the people get their licenses in the normal course. Or maybe not normal but a little bit of running around (that also should not be required) or maybe it is easier in a commissionerate, because the Police is involved till the end and if the SHO clears it there is no stopping till the top. Whereas, in the older system, where even if the police clears it, they file can stop at the DM office.

Atul



I don't know what is the case with me? Everybody has cleared the file however the DM is giving tareekh pe taareekh, taareekh pe tareekh..... I am really pissed off. I have drafted another RTI as per the files shared by GBM. I shall post it tomorrow only....

Regards

Added in 4 minutes 5 seconds:
goodboy_mentor wrote:
StampMaster wrote:My intention here is to educate on the holistic picture for obtaining an AL.
My intention here is to educate on the holistic picture how the most basic human and foundational fundamental right of RKBA, has been cunningly subverted and reduced to a mere status of license(permission) from the State. All through the history of human civilization, this kind of thing has been done by those State powers whose core undeclared foundation is injustice and State terrorism. They have a guilty mind that constantly reminds them, we are doing injustice and terrorism, how shall we continue if every citizen is armed? It is a matter of survival for such crooks with criminal mentality. If this much gets into the minds of people, the job of RKBA awareness is almost 50% done. This idea of disarming citizens is based on core racist ideas coated and cloaked under various smokescreens. I had explained about Indian version of racism and its aversion to popular RKBA in another post here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23554&start=15#p232609

Someone emailed me the link to YouTube video below which shows continuous gunfire by police on unarmed and defenseless crowd like that in Jallianwala Bagh massacre. Just turn on the sound/ speakers of your PC to hear continuous gunshots. If the citizens will be armed then how will police merrily fire on people who will be able to defend themselves? This question continuously foxes these kind of cruel powers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYVdOtTRMMo


Sikhs sacrificed there generations to get India freedom, and this is what they get from Indian Government. Shameful....

Regards


A GOLF COURSE IS A WILLFUL AND DELIBERATE MISUSE OF AN EXCELLENT SHOOTING RANGE....

PRITAM PATEL
Posts: 271
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Location: Ahmedabad

Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby PRITAM PATEL » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:44 am

Dear Ankur,

If you go by legal procedure, it is almost impossible and time spending exercise to get an Arm Lic.

Show them some Gandhijis printed in Red ink, you may get success, without spending your time n efforts...( in long battle, suggested
idea will prove to be more economical n time saving, keeping in mind expenses involved if you had to go to Supreme Court )

IAS/ IPS are enjoying (Britt's Colonial inherited ) wast Powers even after 60 years of Independence

Best of luck

regards

pritam patel


"Men like us don't deserve to die in the bed, field would be a batter option"

Optional : Proper inglish n gramer

ankur_ank007
Posts: 221
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Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby ankur_ank007 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:21 am

PRITAM PATEL wrote:Dear Ankur,

If you go by legal procedure, it is almost impossible and time spending exercise to get an Arm Lic.

Show them some Gandhijis printed in Red ink, you may get success, without spending your time n efforts...( in long battle, suggested
idea will prove to be more economical n time saving, keeping in mind expenses involved if you had to go to Supreme Court )

IAS/ IPS are enjoying (Britt's Colonial inherited ) wast Powers even after 60 years of Independence

Best of luck

regards

pritam patel


Dear Preetam Bhai,

In several of my letters to DM and Home Secy., I have quoted Gandhiji, Vajpayee ji and Supreme Court Judgements.

When Supreme Court judgement stating that DMs, SPs, SSPs etc. not taking honour killings and its threats seriously may face serious charges and charges under IPC, still you think Gandhiji's letters in red ink will move their hearts and awake the feeling to serve the country and citizens which is sleeping since decades....

regards


A GOLF COURSE IS A WILLFUL AND DELIBERATE MISUSE OF AN EXCELLENT SHOOTING RANGE....

StampMaster
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:36 pm
Location: Hyderabad, Bangalore, Dubai UAE

Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby StampMaster » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:38 am

Ankur Ji,

We all are here to give advice and support. But you are the one to take action. We (rather I) dont really understand your need for security and urgency for a firearm.

Go through all the options available and take call. Either filing RTI, appealing to appellate authority, Court etc. But whatever be the option you choose..be prepared to face the consequences. I am not trying to scare you, if you options do not work as expected then to be prepared with Plan B, Plan C, Plan X etc.

I would suggest you proceed with your application with any option, but the consequences have to be in a controllable situation.

Good Luck..


”Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.”

PRITAM PATEL
Posts: 271
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Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby PRITAM PATEL » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:06 pm

Post removed for making suggestions of using underhand means, please consider this an official warning not to do so again - Moderator


"Men like us don't deserve to die in the bed, field would be a batter option"

Optional : Proper inglish n gramer

ankur_ank007
Posts: 221
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Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby ankur_ank007 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:28 pm

PRITAM PATEL wrote: deleted - moderator



Ohhh Hahahahaha....

I am sorry. I was leaving for my office and hence didn't read properly.

I seriously need an AL however I am not in favour of paying a single penny as bribe. This tolerance of our's has made them blood sucking vampires.

Regards

Added in 11 minutes 58 seconds:
StampMaster wrote:Ankur Ji,

We all are here to give advice and support. But you are the one to take action. We (rather I) dont really understand your need for security and urgency for a firearm.

Good Luck..


Hello Sir,

I have married out of my caste and have been receiving Honour Killing threats since then. There area already more than a dozen FIRs regarding this as well as a couple of reports to the police attached with Audio CDs of threatening calls. Each and every police complaint has been investigated and found to be true and reported to the SP/SSP. I can not put my and my wife's lives in jeopardy by taking it less seriously. We both are in private jobs and frequently visit outstations. Police escort cannot accompany us everywhere every time, that's why I am troubled about this. When I asked for security from UP police they replied that Since we live in Ahmedabad so we should ask it from Gujarat Police and Gujarat Police said threat is there when you visit UP or Bihar so you should ask for security from those people. They also told me that giving security is on paid basis and I will have to bear all the expenses. Isn't it the State's responsibility to protect one's life and liberty? Why one should pay for this?

part from this, my parents passed away when I was a boy. I have various property disputes with my uncle who tried to usurp my inheritance since I was only 12-13 at the time of the death of my parents. There are also various civil cases of dispute related to the issue in the courts of UP and Bihar and also a few criminal cases against my uncles since they tried to eliminate me.

That's is the reason of my urgency and need for security. If I am not able to get a tool of defence in a country which boasts of The World's Largest Democracy, then what is the benefit of obeying the laws?

Regards,
Ankur


A GOLF COURSE IS A WILLFUL AND DELIBERATE MISUSE OF AN EXCELLENT SHOOTING RANGE....

goodboy_mentor
Posts: 2896
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby goodboy_mentor » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:11 pm

ankur_ank007 wrote:That's is the reason of my urgency and need for security. If I am not able to get a tool of defence in a country which boasts of The World's Largest Democracy, then what is the benefit of obeying the laws?
Self declared world's largest democracy, is it even a democracy or does it have the rule of law? Or does it have the rule by law? The less said the better.

You are the best judge about your situation and how to deal with it or solve it. But are after reading what you have written, it looks like sometimes security by obscurity(anonymity) can also be used as an additional layer of security. Unless you somehow tell your opponents that you are living in some particular city, how will they track you? Unless they have substantial resources to hire private detectives or agencies to track you down. Private detectives, intelligence agencies, underworld mafia and the like usually track their target by following the paper or electronic trail left by the person, monitoring the communication with his close relatives or friends with whom their target will talk one day or the other. For example they track the following to obtain the information by hook or crook:

1. talking with/ bribing/ intimidating close friends or relatives to reveal the whereabouts. Also monitoring their activities or communications.
2. tracking the transfer of bank accounts from one branch to another branch. Monitoring the account operations or cash withdrawals are taking place from which branch, ATM location or I.P. address or mobile number
3. tracking the transfer of telephone/ mobile connection or LPG gas connection to another place
4. tracking the update of contact details in insurance policy documents or driving license or similar documents.
5. tracking contact details from resumes with online job portals or placement agencies
6. contacting the online forum administrators to get the I.P. addresses used for log in by their target
7. tracking the email address headers of known email addresses for originating I.P. addresses

If above type of things are taken care, it becomes very difficult if not impossible to track the target. It is probable that your opponents are mainly interested in grabbing the ancestral property, opposition to the inter caste/ inter state marriage is just an excuse to socially justify their criminal actions for grabbing your share in property.


"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

StampMaster
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:36 pm
Location: Hyderabad, Bangalore, Dubai UAE

Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby StampMaster » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:49 pm

Ankur Ji,

I may sound rude, please excuse if I hurt you/anyone here.

I do not need your explanation for the need for gun, as long as it for legal purpose and as per the constitution allowance.

If your need it immediately then choose the necessary path to get the job done. I'm here to support you not to accompany you through the process, is the difference between me and your legal expert. And that is the reason you're paying him for (accompanying and expertise).

My suggestion is to be well prepared with your choice of action and how to approach and be ready to face consequences.

FYI, I have myself applied for AL 4 months ago. Till date there is no update from LA, though my application was processed from the local police saying Not Recommended. I have filed RTI 2-3 weeks ago and awaiting reply. Depending on the situation I may apply to the appellate authority, speak to the DM, file court hearing and negotiate, file a court case etc. If I apply to appellate authority there is a consequence for this, "i may be asked to be present for the discussion on specific date and time to justify need for AL", some personal question on profession, timing, area I travel, may be financial background, case pending etc.

Note- Some legal trouble faced by Dr Jaya Kumar

Good Luck


”Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.”

PRITAM PATEL
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:44 am
Location: Ahmedabad

Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby PRITAM PATEL » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:37 am

ankur_ank007 wrote:
PRITAM PATEL wrote:pritam patel


Dear Preetam Bhai,

Ohhh Hahahahaha....

I am sorry. I was leaving for my office and hence didn't read properly.

I [highlight=yellow]seriously need an AL however I am not in favour of paying a single penny as bribe. This tolerance of our's has made them blood sucking vampires.[/highlight]
Regards,
Ankur



Dear Ankur,

What is you priority ?? getting a weapon Lic. for self protection ?

or

Change the system ? and fight for your constitutional Rights ?



Make up your mind, stop seeking emotional feed back on your efforts,

Decide first, what is your number one priority,
is is absolute required ?
or just for show off ?
if there is no alternate,

acquire it by any means....


Netaji quoted many times while addressing Azzad Hind Fauj

Independence is my birth right and I intend to get it by any means"


"Men like us don't deserve to die in the bed, field would be a batter option"

Optional : Proper inglish n gramer

ankur_ank007
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:46 am
Location: Ahmedabad
Contact:

Re: Pathetic Indian Bureaucracy

Postby ankur_ank007 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:26 pm

StampMaster wrote:Ankur Ji,

I may sound rude, please excuse if I hurt you/anyone here.

I do not need your explanation for the need for gun, as long as it for legal purpose and as per the constitution allowance.

If your need it immediately then choose the necessary path to get the job done. I'm here to support you not to accompany you through the process, is the difference between me and your legal expert. And that is the reason you're paying him for (accompanying and expertise).

My suggestion is to be well prepared with your choice of action and how to approach and be ready to face consequences.

FYI, I have myself applied for AL 4 months ago. Till date there is no update from LA, though my application was processed from the local police saying Not Recommended. I have filed RTI 2-3 weeks ago and awaiting reply. Depending on the situation I may apply to the appellate authority, speak to the DM, file court hearing and negotiate, file a court case etc. If I apply to appellate authority there is a consequence for this, "i may be asked to be present for the discussion on specific date and time to justify need for AL", some personal question on profession, timing, area I travel, may be financial background, case pending etc.

Note- Some legal trouble faced by Dr Jaya Kumar

Good Luck


StampMaster ji,

I certainly don't feel offended by something said by my seniors until and unless its very very personal and in your case its nothing like that. If I would have needed gun for some unlawful purpose, Its not a big deal to get it in UP and Bihar then what's the need to apply for a license. Cetainly I need it to defend myself.
I am ready to face consequences, If the LA or local police try to harass me because I may grab them by their b**ls, I am ready to approach courts of law. I have not hired any lawyer or some legal expert however I have done research myself and drafted my applications myself.

In my case, all the reports (Local PS, DSP, SP & Mamlatdar) has been sent to the Licensing Authority. The date of Hearing was initially 29 Aug 2015, however since then the LA has been delaying it by every fortnight.

Regards.

Added in 8 minutes 41 seconds:
PRITAM PATEL wrote:
ankur_ank007 wrote:
PRITAM PATEL wrote:pritam patel


Dear Preetam Bhai,

Ohhh Hahahahaha....

I am sorry. I was leaving for my office and hence didn't read properly.

I [highlight=yellow]seriously need an AL however I am not in favour of paying a single penny as bribe. This tolerance of our's has made them blood sucking vampires.[/highlight]
Regards,
Ankur



Dear Ankur,

What is you priority ?? getting a weapon Lic. for self protection ?

or

Change the system ? and fight for your constitutional Rights ?



Make up your mind, stop seeking emotional feed back on your efforts,

Decide first, what is your number one priority,
is is absolute required ?
or just for show off ?
if there is no alternate,

acquire it by any means....


Netaji quoted many times while addressing Azzad Hind Fauj

Independence is my birth right and I intend to get it by any means"



Dear Mr. Patel,

Firstly, I need it for my defence and self defence is my birth right, a natural right and a fundamental right.

Secondly, The system is being a hindrance in the enjoyment of my Natural and Fundamental right so I also stand to raise my voice against this.

Thirdly, The details of my case which I shared in response to the question of StampMaster ji is an answer to his question that what is the urgency of my need.

Fourthly, If I wanted to showoff, I would have bribed and received an AL easily, I presume.

Lastly, Emotional efforts are required to make the change. Whether it was The Russian Revolution, War of American Independence, The French Revolution or anything else.... unless you are not attached with it with all your emotions, you cannot help.... However getting emotional feedback is not my plan of action or intention, it is not going to help me in any way.


And about Netaji, he was ready to fight with the British in any possible way, whether it be through Azad Hind Fauz alone or with the Help of Nazis or Japanese, he was not there to bribe or buy the English out of the country.

No offence intended.

Regards

Added in 13 minutes 53 seconds:
goodboy_mentor wrote:
ankur_ank007 wrote:That's is the reason of my urgency and need for security. If I am not able to get a tool of defence in a country which boasts of The World's Largest Democracy, then what is the benefit of obeying the laws?
Self declared world's largest democracy, is it even a democracy or does it have the rule of law? Or does it have the rule by law? The less said the better.

You are the best judge about your situation and how to deal with it or solve it. But are after reading what you have written, it looks like sometimes security by obscurity(anonymity) can also be used as an additional layer of security. Unless you somehow tell your opponents that you are living in some particular city, how will they track you? Unless they have substantial resources to hire private detectives or agencies to track you down. Private detectives, intelligence agencies, underworld mafia and the like usually track their target by following the paper or electronic trail left by the person, monitoring the communication with his close relatives or friends with whom their target will talk one day or the other. For example they track the following to obtain the information by hook or crook:

1. talking with/ bribing/ intimidating close friends or relatives to reveal the whereabouts. Also monitoring their activities or communications.
2. tracking the transfer of bank accounts from one branch to another branch. Monitoring the account operations or cash withdrawals are taking place from which branch, ATM location or I.P. address or mobile number
3. tracking the transfer of telephone/ mobile connection or LPG gas connection to another place
4. tracking the update of contact details in insurance policy documents or driving license or similar documents.
5. tracking contact details from resumes with online job portals or placement agencies
6. contacting the online forum administrators to get the I.P. addresses used for log in by their target
7. tracking the email address headers of known email addresses for originating I.P. addresses

If above type of things are taken care, it becomes very difficult if not impossible to track the target. It is probable that your opponents are mainly interested in grabbing the ancestral property, opposition to the inter caste/ inter state marriage is just an excuse to socially justify their criminal actions for grabbing your share in property.



Hello GBM Sir,

Greetings of the day.

You are absolutely correct sir. Security by Anonymity was my tool till recently. I was not on Facebook (till recently), I was not using any other social media, Instead of getting LPG connections transferred I preferred to surrender one and get another. I also use an email address having a domain id from UK and my mobile no. is from Delhi which I use on roaming but not get it transferred to any other location. Frankly, I shall be safe until and unless I visit Bihar or UP, as the relatives are not underworld dons having links across the globe. But since, I am not residing in Lucknow since 2007 due to threats, I can only apply for an AL from my normal place of residence. Also, maintaining anonymity for long will now result in losing all my inherited immovable property.
But, if I have lesser threat out of UP or Bihar does not mean that I shouldn't be prepared. If I continue to live a life of anonymity I will have to practically forgo all my inherited immovable assets. Also, I have to occaisionally appear before the courts [usually in Motihari (Bihar), Lucknow (UP), Gorakhpur (UP), Ballia (UP) and Dehradun (UK)] where I have inherited immovable properties and civil cases are sub-judice in the courts.

Your legal advices have been a great support to me in understanding the judicial system and laws. I personally appreciate the efforts you make to support RKBA through IFG and Nagri.

Regards,
Ankur


A GOLF COURSE IS A WILLFUL AND DELIBERATE MISUSE OF AN EXCELLENT SHOOTING RANGE....


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