List of PB and NPB guns in India?

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List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby subhroinindia » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:14 pm

I had two very specific queries needed for legal purposes -

1. Is a Remington XCR 700 Compact Tactical Rifle a Prohibited Bore in India?
2. Is a Glock 37 a Prohibited Bore in India?
3. Under what laws do Foreign Security Contingents/Foreign security officers hold guns in India? What laws are applicable too them as to usage of these guns - as in what if they shoot an Indian Civilian with either of the two above mentioned guns (whether they are PB or Non- PB)?

I will be highly obliged if you can imapat some knowledge regarding this to me.
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby TwoRivers » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:27 pm

Be specific.
1. It's the cartidge that is "prohibited bore", not the rifle. A Remington M700 Tactical comes in more than one chambering.
2. The .45 GAP cartridge is not on the "prohibited bore" list.
3. He will become a "guest of the State"; regardless of what gun or cartridge he used.
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby xl_target » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:32 pm

1. As Two Rivers mentions; the cartridge that the firearm fires is what makes it PB on NPB.
The cartridge it fires is what determines it status, the model of the rifle has nothing to do with it. The rifle you mentioned is offered in .223 Remington, .308 Winchester and 300 Winchester Magnum. Technically, none of those calibers is NPB. (5.56 X 45* and 7.72 X 51 which are used by NATO forces and Indian Armed Forces are Prohibited Bore).

2. The Glock 37 pistol is only offered in the .45 GAP (Glock Action Pistol) chambering. Unless the .45 GAP is used by any government forces in India, it would be NPB.

3. No idea. Do they have Diplomatic immunity? On embassy property they are on their own country's soil.

*sorry, my mistake. 5.56 x 45 is not mentioned as PB
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby subhroinindia » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:59 pm

Sir,

Thank you for your quick reply -

The guns I am referring too have the following features -

Remington XCR 700 Compact Tactical Rifle - with 20" Barrel and a Glock 37 Handgun - The cartridges being used are .208 Win cartridges. Forgive me for my naivete regarding guns - Does this bring these under the prohibited bore list?
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby subhroinindia » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:01 am

Moreover does the Glock qualify as a semi automatic - which bans its use?
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby goodboy_mentor » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:04 am

This matter is already discussed in this forum. Prohibited Bore is a misnomer, they are not prohibited if you have the required license. You will not find anywhere Prohibited Bore written in Arms Act 1959 or its Arms Rules 1962. Instead of mentioning firearms of SCHEDULE -I category I(b) and I(c) of Arms Rules 1962, they have been given an easy to remember but misleading name Prohibited Bore. The licensing authority for Prohibited Bore is Ministry of Home Affairs, New Delhi.
1. Is a Remington XCR 700 Compact Tactical Rifle a Prohibited Bore in India?
If the rifle is semi automatic, then regardless of the caliber, it is Prohibited Bore because it would fall in SCHEDULE -I category I(b) of Arms Rules 1962.

5.56x45 mm is Non Prohibited Bore since this caliber is not mentioned in SCHEDULE -I category I(c) of Arms Rules 1962.

7.62x51 mm is Prohibited Bore since it is mentioned(used by services) in SCHEDULE -I category I(c) of Arms Rules 1962.

7.62x63 mm(.30-06) or 7.62x67 mm(.300 Winchester Magnum) are Non Prohibited Bore.
2. Is a Glock 37 a Prohibited Bore in India?
It is Non Prohibited Bore since .45 GAP is not mentioned in SCHEDULE -I category I(c) of Arms Rules 1962. Semi auto pistols are not banned or illegal.
3. Under what laws do Foreign Security Contingents/Foreign security officers hold guns in India?
Unless having diplomatic immunity, Arms Act 1959 is applicable but MHA has the power to give them exemptions from Arms Act 1959.
What laws are applicable too them as to usage of these guns - as in what if they shoot an Indian Civilian with either of the two above mentioned guns (whether they are PB or Non- PB)?
Unless they have diplomatic immunity, if the shooting is illegal then Arms Act 1959 and other penal laws of the land like 302 IPC etc. If the shooting is done in self defense then Sections 96 to 106 IPC will apply.
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby xl_target » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:13 am

subhroinindia wrote:Moreover does the Glock qualify as a semi automatic - which bans its use?

Semi automatic pistols are not prohibited. In fact, IOF (Indian Ordinance Factories) manufactures a semiautomatic pistol (the Ashani) for sale to the public.
The XCR 700 Tactical is a bolt action rifle.

There is no such caliber as .208 Winchester. I believe you mean .308 Winchester.
.308 Winchester is not mentioned in the list either (in some cases, not all, it is interchangeable with 7.62 x 51. Is this a grey area, GBM?)
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby subhroinindia » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:23 am

Thank you for all your replies - Your knowledge about guns is actually astounding - again sorry for my complete ignorance about guns - I'm an undergraduate Law Student who needs to know all this for a case - so thank you :)
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby goodboy_mentor » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:29 am

Is this a grey area, GBM?
I don't think it is completely grey area since Arms Rules 1962 SCHEDULE -I category I(c) says "........bore of any other bore which can chamber and fire service ammunition of .303" or 7.62 mm. calbire" Therefore if .308 Winchester rifle can fire the 7.62x51 mm service cartridges, then it would fall in category I(c) i.e. prohibited bore else non prohibited bore.
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby xl_target » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:14 am

Therefore if .308 Winchester rifle can fire the 7.62x51 mm service cartridges, then it would fall in category I(c) i.e. prohibited bore else non prohibited bore.


Two Rivers can probably give a better explanation of this issue.
Military brass used in the 7.62X51 cartridge is thicker than the brass used in the (civilian) .308 Winchester cartridge. It is a matter of chamber dimensions. Some (not all) rifles chambered for the .308 Winchester cartridge can also fire 7.62x51 cartridges. Most rifles chambered for 7.62x51 can fire .308 Winchester ammunition.
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby surajshuresh » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:40 pm

Hi subhroinindia...
1: Remington XCR 700 Compact Tactical Rifle comes in .308 win and .223. The .308 comes in 4 round mag and .223 comes in 5 round mag. There is no .208 win cal...The Remington XCR 700 Compact Tactical Rifle .308 win can fire the 7.62 Nato round... But there are differences between the .308 win and 7.62 nato round like brass thickness and pressures...According the Indian Arms Act anything that can chamber a Prohibited bore like the 7.62 Nato which is used by the Indian forces is considered as Prohibited to own or use by civilians unless they have the specific licenses...Hence the Remington XCR 700 Compact Tactical Rifle .308 win is Prohibited.

2: The Glock 37 chambers a .45 GAP round which is a Non-Prohibited bore in India... There is no ban on semi-automatic pistols in India...Please read up the Indian Arms Act and know the specific sections of the Indian Arms Act to justify these claims of point 1 and 2...

3: This question is not detail to answer because there many laws involved. Diplomatic immunity is not given for everyone and for every crime or act. If they killed civilians then criminal charges are applied for criminal charges there is no diplomatic immunity for anyone they can be detained and prosecuted. If they are Foreign security officers i think they would have taken necessary approvals to own and use prohibited guns in India because those guns would be the property of the state and not there own guns. If the security officer is killed the civilians in an act of self defense then if he proves it then its a different story. If the security officer killed unarmed civilians who has no intention of attracting or killing the security officer then murder charges can be applied IPC 302 no diplomatic relations for such things for anyone. Any military or police officers to fire or give warning shots must be authorized by seniors officers and or follow the protocol or else they will be in big trouble like enquire on then etc...For law on diplomatic immunity read up on 'Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations'... As a law student i am guessing you must be knowing all the related laws for this. I am no Law student but i hope this helps you... Cheers mate... Thank you...
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby subhroinindia » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:37 pm

If the rifle is semi automatic, then regardless of the caliber, it is Prohibited Bore because it would fall in SCHEDULE -I category I(b) of Arms Rules 1962.


From what I read the Remington XCR appears to be a bolt action - the models capable of holding 3-4 rounds after which they need to be reloaded - Does that make it a semi automatic and hence a PB? On the other hand is the Win .308 in use by the military or other government agencies in India?
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby surajshuresh » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:11 pm

Hi Remington XCR is a blot action and not semi auto i.e you need to work the bold manually to eject and camber the next round as in semi auto its done automatically and one trigger pull will fire one and load the next round in full auto this is done contentiously in high speed. The .308 win model holds 4 rounds... The .308 win is not used by any agency in India... If you are saying Foreign security officers used these guys you can not book them under arms act because they would have got permissions to use such guns and the guns are the property of their state. They can books of they got them illegally in to India which i think no Foreign security officers would do unless he is a criminal or something...
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby goodboy_mentor » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:04 pm

According the Indian Arms Act anything that can chamber a Prohibited bore like the 7.62 Nato which is used by the Indian forces is considered as Prohibited to own or use by civilians
There is nothing in Arms Act 1959 that says so. If yes please mention that particular Section/Clause/Sub Clause of Arms Act 1959 so that we all can learn.
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Re: List of PB and NPB guns in India?

Postby surajshuresh » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:16 pm

Hi goodboy_mentor... It is mentioned under Schedule 1 of Indian Arms rules of 1962...Thank you...

"Blot action or semi-automatic refles of .303" or 7.62 mm. bore of any other bore which can chamber and fire service ammunition of .303" or 7.62 mm. calbire; musket ammunition; pistols, revolvers of carbines of any bore which can chamber .380" and .455" rimmed cartridges or service 9mm. or .445" rimless cartridges."
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