Spooky experiences...share them here

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pgupta
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Re: Spooky experiences...share them here

Post by pgupta » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:13 pm

Finally something different and engaging

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timmy
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Re: Spooky experiences...share them here

Post by timmy » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:40 am

Shivaji.Dasgupta wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:01 pm
. . . I am a science graduate and my parents taught me to check every thing with logic and reason before believe into it. That is the reason I am always ready to believe the things which I can see and check by my own but I have faced some incidents Which is still not clear to me and there is nothing which I can say is a visible abnormality but you can feel that every thing is not normal in that place. . .
This is much the same as with me. I do have a strong belief in both the spiritual and material aspects of life and recognize that Science, which is the observation and study of the material world, by definition does not have the ability to delve into spiritual mysteries. However, while I personally don't subscribe to common tales of "the supernatural," there are things that, for me, "you can feel that everything is not normal in that place."

Here is one such place which I've visited a number of times and each time have had the same experience:

Image

This is the Custer Battlefield in Southeastern Montana. Today it is not only a National Park, but also a national cemetery. Rows of gravestones can be seen to the right of this photo, and they comprise the national cemetery portion of the site. Many forts were built and subsequently abandoned during the times of the American West, roughly 1850 to 1900. As death is part of the human experience, people at these forts died and were buried in the post cemetery. When these forts were abandoned, the remains were disinterred and reburied and Custer Battlefield and that is the cemetery visible in this photo. My Wife's great uncle and aunt are also buried there, as he served during the time of the Wounded Knee Massacre (1890). For this and other reasons, I've visited the Custer Battlefield a number of times over more than 50 years.

This photo is taken from the so-called "Custer Hill," where the remnants of Custer's force gathered and were finally wiped out. Other than the few buildings seen in the photo, it is very easy to imagine the original time and place of the battle. The view in person is quite striking, in that the vastness and open nature of the American prairie can be experienced. The Big Horn Mountains in the far distance of this photo's horizon can't be seen well here, but in person are usually visible on a clear day.

This country has an extreme high plains climate. Summer weather can be mercilessly hot and humid, with temperatures above 38* C, and in the winter, temperatures can drop below -40* C. Often, the wind can blow quite strongly, and locals note that the only thing between this area and the North Pole is a barbed wire fence in Canada. It was on a hot day in June that this battle took place.

Custer and his command proceeded to this point from Ft. Lincoln, Dakota Territory (now near the town of Bismarck, North Dakota) in 1876 to enforce a decree of the US Government upon the Sioux and Cheyenne Native American tribes. Custer's force of about 500 cavalry troopers was the "iron fist" of the military plan, which included a contingent of about 1000 moving north from Fort Fetterman in Wyoming under General Crook, Custer and his cavalry contingent, commanded by General Terry and several companies of infantry including supply wagons and Gatling guns moved along the Yellowstone River from the east, and Col. Gibbon's infantry moved west from Fort Ellis (near Bozeman, Montana) to catch the Native American tribes, known to be hunting buffalo that summer in Southeastern Montana, and overpower them.

Crook, coming up from the south, encountered great groups of Sioux and Cheyenne warriors and, at the Battle of the Rosebud a week before the Custer battle, were checked, after which General Crook retreated back to the south. All of this country was completely uninhabited by white men, and there was no communication possible between the three advancing columns that were separated by hundreds of miles of wilderness.

Custer departed from General Terry's column and advanced south along the Rosebud River to locate hostile Sioux and Cheyenne villages. Custer came upon a large Native American trail heading west, and he and the 7th Cavalry followed this trail over the divide of prairie hills to the crest separating the Rosebud Valley from the Little Big Horn Valley.

It is at this point where versions of the story diverge. Some claim that the Native Americans knew Custer and his men were coming and some say that Custer achieved surprise. My own reading of the event tends to favor surprise, but the size of the Native American gathering indicated by the trail Custer and his men were following was unprecedented in the experience of all, including that of Native American scouts with Custer.

Custer, at this point, divided his command. This, at first glance, seems like a foolish thing to do in the face of his numerous foes, but one must recall that Custer was an experienced fighter of Native Americans. He was also a highly respected commander in the American Civil War, having played important roles in many of that conflict's most important battles. Custer knew from experience and training that even a large camp of Native Americans, which included many women, children, and old people, could be routed if surprised by an attack from a number of directions at once. If Custer could induce confusion and panic among the Native Americans and their families with no formal military structure and put them "on the run," it was possible for him to rout them.

It must also be remembered that Custer himself was under a political cloud at the time. He was a Democrat and he had testified before Congress of the corruption of Secretary of War WW Belknap, who acted in cahoots with Republican President Ulysses S Grant's brother Orville. Only by pulling a number of strings was Custer even able to return to Fort Abraham Lincoln from Washington DC to resume command of his regiment, still subject to President Grant's wrath. Beside Custer's enjoyment of battlefield glory, he knew that a big victory over the Native Americans would make him politically untouchable, even from the President. Custer, in other words, had strong motivations to act as he did. It is fair to say that he engaged in risky behavior, but he was not mad nor acting in an uncalculating, silly manner.

Custer sent three companies of cavalry under Major Marcus Reno to attack the southern end of the large camp. Captain Frederick Benteen followed with three more companies and a company with the pack train. Custer himself, with five companies, proceeded along the ridge to attack the north end of the Native American camp.

Most will be familiar with the following events. Reno, under the influence of alcohol, attacked the south end of the camp but did not press his attack. The Native Americans rallied and chased his troopers back across the river and up to a tall hill (now known as Reno Hill) with great loss. Benteen came along with his command and the pack train and joined him. Captain Weir, disgusted at Benteen's (who seems to have taken real command at this point) and Reno's disobedience of orders and failure to support Custer, proceeded north to what is called today "Weir's Point" and saw a huge cloud of dust rising from further up the valley. It is likely that the Native Americans had just begun finishing off Custer's men at this point. But Weir had other things on his mind when a large contingent of Native Americans, having noticed them, began charging their way. Weir quickly retreated and rejoined Reno and Benteen.

At this point, the story becomes confused because nobody from Custer's command survived to tell what happened. Native American accounts were largely disregarded for many years. They were the despised enemy who "murdered" the white man's hero. Also, as Native Americans fearing ill-treatment, they told interviewers what they thought the white men would want to hear. Finally, the participants in such a large event happening over a wide and separated battlefield had many points of view that were difficult to reconcile without seeing the whole picture.

What seems to me to have happened, after much reading about the battle, is this: Custer and his five companies rode north along the crest, proceeded to the northern end of the camp, tried to cross the Little Big Horn, and were attacked. They were rebuffed with some loss and retreated to the top of Custer Hill. There, they formed skirmish lines, which were effective in repelling attack until Native Americans were able to outflank the skirmish lines by creeping up to them via a large ravine, or "coulee" as it is called in that country.

The battle at this point resembled a smaller version of the Battle of Isandlwana during the Anglo-Zulu War: once the firepower of the skirmish lines was broken and outflanked, Native American warriors rapidly overran the troopers, slaughtering them in groups and one-by-one.

Native American accounts tell of one trooper who fled on horseback. He seemed to be getting away before he raised his revolver and shot himself in the head. One must remember here that the trooper was seeing his comrades totally overrun, being slaughtered, and where was he going to go? He was in a trackless wasteland, many hundreds of miles away from any white man in a sea of grass.

Miles Keogh, an Irishman who had fought for the papal armies in Italy and had been decorated by the pope, was found surrounded by a number of dead. He'd obviously put up a great fight, and though he was stripped of his clothing, his gold medal was still around his neck. The Native Americans respected a brave warrior.

The bodies were mutilated but this part of the story was suppressed by Terry's infantry, who came down the Little Bighorn after the battle so as not to offend the widows and families of the fallen troopers. Thighs were gashed so that in the afterlife, these men could no longer chase and fight Native Americans. Eyes were gouged out for the same reason. Native Americans used awls to poke holes in the ears of the dead. It was thought that this way, the white men in the afterlife could "hear better" when they made a treaty and keep their promises.

As a child, my family and I visited the Buffalo Bill/Winchester Museum in Cody, Wyoming. There, I saw a necklace displayed that was composed of beads and what looked to be about 30 or more bones a little smaller than the bones from chicken wings. The necklace was said to be made of the trigger fingers of Custer's men. By cutting them from the bodies, white men would no longer be able to shoot Native Americans in the afterlife. When I took my own family there, years later, this necklace was no longer on display.

There was another part of the bodies that was cut off, so as to limit the reproductive capacities of the white men in the afterlife. One Native American warrior's account told of watching women stripping the white soldiers' bodies after the battle, when the women came upon a white soldier who was "playing dead." Once these women made a move to cut off his member, he "came alive" and tried to get away while the women tussled with him. The story recounted the observer's amused laughter as he watched the naked white man dancing about with the women until they successfully smashed his skull with a rock.

Terry's infantry, coming across the battlefield later, buried the soldiers in hastily dug shallow graves, where they were dug up and mostly devoured by wolves and coyotes over the passing years. The Army finally came out and buried remains properly at or near the point where they fell, although it was not always possible to tell what remains belonged to who. You can see these gravestones in the photo which stretch down in little trickles to the river.

When you are there, it is so easy to imagine one's self being hundreds of miles from your own people, perhaps a recent immigrant from Europe whose training consisted of shooting one round per month for target practice, and whose verdigris-encrusted ammunition soon became stuck in the hot chamber of your hot Trapdoor Springfield rifle as Native Americans charged you with the very obvious intention to end your life in a most unpleasant way.

So, when one is there, there is a FEELING -- a very strong feeling -- that permeates the place that is silent from all but the wind, and which stretches away in the vast expanses of the American Prairie. It is easy to feel an overbearing foreboding, even today, as one stands there and contemplates the dust, gunfire, screams and yells, whizzing arrows, and flies gathering the blood of still-warm corpses afterwards as they are stripped and mutilated.

If one has read about the Battle to any extent, it's also possible to imagine the campfires burning as the wailing of families for the Native American dead pierced the evening air, while wolves dined upon the dead lying not so far away. The Native Americans suffered severe casualties, as well. As you can see, this battle greatly resembled the Battle of Isandlwana, which I mentioned earlier.

The feeling is very palpable, to be there and experience it. It's not imagination, I say: you can FEEL it, and at times quite strongly.

This might be explained by the fact that I have read a lot about it, and can easily visualize it from the descriptions I've read. But attribute the feeling to whatever you like, it very definitely exists.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

Shivaji.Dasgupta
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Re: Spooky experiences...share them here

Post by Shivaji.Dasgupta » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:51 pm

Right you are Timmy. The stories and the myth related with one particular place is the source of all superstition.

I have a set of spear, Tangi ( fish tail axe) and a Talwar, all were made by some unknown blacksmith approx 100+ years ago. The actual owner was a co fighter with Birsa Munda and They were possibly used in the fights of Ulugulan Revolution. Their last family member give these to me in 2017.
He told me that these were belongs to his grandfather and were used in 1899/1900 revolt. Even at last battle in jamkopai it was used.
One small story is as follows... On that last fateful night of 2-3rd Feb 1900, when the band of guerilla fighters of approx 600-700 took shelter in a dense patch of forest named Jamkopai in present day Saranda Reserved forest, the priest of that tribal group informed everyone that place is cursed and the spirits informed him, if any one try to stay there then it's for sure a bloodshed is unavoidable.
As Birsa Munda himself was educated by Western missionaries so he ruled out this forecast and they lit camp fire for their food. Around 10/11 pm the attack was started and by early morning it was ended with the arrest of Birsa Munda.
As of now nobody goes in that area due to that 122 year old story of cursed forest and I have checked a lot of documents and govt. Data up to max. Extent possible, but no clear details are available about which exact location that battle was happened.
Regards

Shivaji

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timmy
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Re: Spooky experiences...share them here

Post by timmy » Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:47 am

So, the feeling I described in the post above is known and has a name:
. . . a special reputation or resonance - what some anthropologists call a numen, a palpable but indefinible power of place which evokes in onlookers a feeling of awe mingled with a sense of their own powerlessness.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

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