How much gun culture is healthy to society

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Vassili Zaitsev
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How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by Vassili Zaitsev » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:44 pm

One more tragic story from Florida. As per BBC this is 18th massacre in schools in US. How healthy is this culture where guns are easily available..
https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBJaa6U?m=en-gb
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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:22 pm

Gun is never "the problem", it is the psychological, social and sometimes political issues that are the problem. If some mentally deranged person takes a LPG gas cylinder and blows it like a bomb, is the LPG cylinder a problem or the deranged individual? An ethical or healthy society will have far fewer problems, as compared with an unethical or unhealthy society. This is the crux of the matter. Guns are irrelevant and at the most are superficial symptoms of underlying problems in society. And irresponsible or unethical politicians always prefer to target the superficial symptoms because it is easy to target them.
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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by Vassili Zaitsev » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:29 am

The availability of guns and easy access to common men in US are the main issue what the people are saying in that country. Politics allow gun license to capture the vote bank in Amarica. Not sure how much we can allow to have free gun culture and illegal weapons sellers to shed so much of blood of innocent people. Guess,Amarica is paying its ultimate price for being a Gun savy country.
Guns are life less objects so are the bullets it is the hand which will hold it and pulls the trigger are responsible.
Do they have bag and body frisking in their high schools and colleges?
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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by sdb » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:47 pm

Guns are nothing but force multipliers, and that itself is a danger. If 1 in 1000 is a deranged maniac the force multiplication makes the ratio skewed. Criminals always will be better prepared for an attack as there the element of surprise in their hands. E.g in case of knife attacks wracking up 100 kills is extremely difficult than using an assault rifle and doing the same. And believe me when shit hits the fan even the best marksman in the innocent crowd will dither to fire back at the attacker (unless he/she had previous experience of having courage under fire).

I do agree that guns are on themselves are not the problem but it is too much of a chance to take when it is easily accessible to people who can make a problem of it. In this case it was the lax attitude of the law agencies that ignored the threats. But I wonder whether indian authorities are even capable of detecting such incidences.

I believe though their should be a balance. Assault rifles are too much of a threat than it is about freedom to own, a bolt action on the other hand makes more sense. If someone has the itch to shoot assault rifles do so in firing ranges earmarked for the same (which I really want to be present in india, and easily accessible but strictly monitored).

For self defence also, its always easier to get ambushed than not. Criminals will always try to suckerpunch than not. Easy accessibility to lethal weapons change the results from broken bones, busted heads, knife slashes and up the spectrum to headshots or gutshots and deaths.

This is however my opinion.

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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by andy_65_in » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:35 pm

Vassili Zaitsev wrote:One more tragic story from Florida. As per BBC this is 18th massacre in schools in US. How healthy is this culture where guns are easily available..
https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBJaa6U?m=en-gb
Such incidents make no dent in the american psyche.perhaps except the sufferers.Such incidents will continue unabated..theres no political will to eradicate this menance in America

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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by Vassili Zaitsev » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:54 am

Further more updates..

Florida Students To March On Washington In Call For Gun Reform

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/florida ... rm-1814268
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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by xl_target » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:40 am

Vassili Zaitsev wrote:The availability of guns and easy access to common men in US are the main issue what the people are saying in that country. Politics allow gun license to capture the vote bank in Amarica. Not sure how much we can allow to have free gun culture and illegal weapons sellers to shed so much of blood of innocent people.
B.S!
If you subscribe to the above opinions, you don't know what you are talking about.
At best you are being deliberately simplistic to make a point or you actually believe what you have written.
If you think that is harsh, let me go over your statements one by one.

As far as your statement that "The availability of guns... ..what people are saying in that country"; it is only the press and their cohorts are who are saying this. Why is there a unanimity of opinion in the press? Because in the USA, a very small number of people own 90% of the press outlets.
Remember that these are the same people who predicted a 98% chance of Hillary winning the election. This is the same press that is hinting to people that the legally elected government in the US was not legally elected. After all, their polls could not have been wrong, could they? The mainstream press in the USA today has lost touch with the vast majority of people in the USA. They mistakenly believe that only the east and west coast matter and the rest of the country is only "fly-over country".

Your second statement "Politics allow gun license to capture the vote bank in Amarica"; I have to admit, I have no clue what you are actually trying to say here.

Your third statement; "Not sure how much we can allow to have free gun culture and illegal weapons sellers to shed so much of blood of innocent people". You seem to be saying that permissive gun laws are what caused this tragedy.
Do you think that stricter gun laws would have prevented this? Do you know that in the USA today, there are laws that make murder illegal? They also make attempted murder illegal. Then, most cities have laws against discharging firearms in city limits. There is also a law that says that you can't have a firearm within 1000 yards of a school. There is also a law in Florida that says that you cannot carry (open or concealed) a long gun unless you are legally hunting or engaged in skeet or target shooting with a club.
Do you seriously think that another law would have stopped him?
Your statement seems to suggest one thing and I think I know what that is but am not sure what exactly you mean by "free gun culture". I also don't know what illegal weapons sellers have to do with "shedding blood....".

Guess,Amarica is paying its ultimate price for being a Gun savy country.
Guns are life less objects so are the bullets it is the hand which will hold it and pulls the trigger are responsible.
Do they have bag and body frisking in their high schools and colleges?.
"Guess,Amarica is paying its ultimate price for being a Gun savy country" You do know that that is how America actually became a country?
America gained it's independence from Britain by resisting, with their guns, what was then the army of the world's strongest nation.

"Guns are life less objects so are the bullets it is the hand which will hold it and pulls the trigger are responsible".
Yes. Not too hard a concept to grasp.

"Do they have bag and body frisking in their high schools and colleges?" Many schools do but apparently this one did not. It look like he just walked in off the street, pulled the fire alarms to get everyone out in the hallways and then started shooting. In a truly free country, allowing free movement of the people, barriers to movement are disliked by the general populace.

While these are horrific tragedies, the mainstream press in the USA seems to have one goal; the eradication of guns, all guns from private use.
They will lie, cheat and steal to achieve that goal. you want to know about the oft repeated 18 school shootings since the beginning of the year?
Try reading this. This is the first one that came up when I did a cursory search. If you look there are many other articles debunking that claim. However, even the BBC is overrun with liars now.

Let me add something else to this discussion. America is a vast country with many different types of people living here. There are good people and bad.

Here are some stats to ponder:
All injury deaths
Number of deaths: 199,752
Deaths per 100,000 population: 62.6

All poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 51,966
Deaths per 100,000 population: 16.3

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 33,736
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 33,594
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.5
Info from here
How come the press isn't clamoring for the removal for automobiles from American roads... or swimming pools from American houses.
Why stop there? Ban ladders, 5 gallon pails, kitchen knives, motorcycles, bicycles, chainsaws, hammers... I could keep going on.

BTW those firearm stats include accidental deaths, suicides, police shootings, gang violence deaths, etc.
They are from 2014 CDC stats (published in 2016). It takes a few years for them to be sorted and published.
The leading causes of death in the USA at that time were:
The 15 leading causes of death in 2014 were:
1. Diseases of heart (heart disease)
2. Malignant neoplasms (cancer)
3. Chronic lower respiratory diseases
4. Accidents (unintentional injuries)
5. Cerebrovascular diseases (stroke)
6. Alzheimer’s disease
7. Diabetes mellitus (diabetes)
8. Influenza and pneumonia
9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (kidney
disease)
10. Intentional self-harm (suicide)
11. Septicemia
12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
13. Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease
(hypertension)
14. Parkinson’s disease
15. Pneumonitis due to solids and liquids

Maybe we should pass laws banning high blood pressure, diabetes, pneumonia, bacteria and viruses.
That will make them go away and solve the problem!

Added in 43 minutes 1 second:
sdb wrote:Assault rifles are too much of a threat than it is about freedom to own, a bolt action on the other hand makes more sense. If someone has the itch to shoot assault rifles do so in firing ranges earmarked for the same (which I really want to be present in india, and easily accessible but strictly monitored).


This is however my opinion.
Can you define an "Assault Rifle"?

To quote Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride who coined the famous phrase, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means",
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by SMJ » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:04 am

@XL target. It's really sad that the media pretty much everywhere portrays the image of guns in bad light. Do you think the media worldwide is being forced to do so by the political might in their respective countries? I'm inclined to think it must be the case - after all it's a bit far fetched to think that EVERYONE in the media WORLDWIDE believes guns are bad...

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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by shooter » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:40 am

Dear vasilli Zaitsev Andy and sdb please read bbc UK’s India news section. Any 3 days I don’t care which. Your choice; can be three random or consecutive days.

After reading you will think india is full of bigots rapists murderers violent uncivilised people.


Do you have any idea at all about what you are saying.
All the people talking about the lack of “political will”.
What political will?

The constitution is very clear the political will is the will of the people. So please don’t superimpose the socialistic constitutional values of one country on the values of freedom of the other country.

Everyone wants to talk about guns or video games or mental health etc etc. Fine, talk about it. No one will ever talk about changing moral values in society. No one wants to talk about the changing moral values and their relation to murders and crime.

Did you know that when machine guns and assault rifles were available through mail order not one school shooting happened. Zero.

So what does availability have to do with it.

Force multiplier- yes guns are force multipliers. Fine. Does any of you know the biggest school killing happened with a can of petrol/kerosene and a few matchsticks? What should we do? Ban petrol?

India accounts for 25% of worlds road traffic deaths despite owning 2-5% (approx) of the worlds cars. Your trusted source Bbc says it is 1% of the cars. They also feel that easy availability of cars is the problem. Did any of you ever write about those deaths or give up your cars?

If you were on a Luna/moped it would be better. What could have been a scrape cut busted nose now becomes a mangled body.

What happened in the USAis sad. But don’t do a BBCon us to start US bashing.



What that tells me is to stay away from you. I am pretty sure you can’t see the future or read others mind. You can only predict how someone will react by thinking how you will react in that situation. All this happens subconsciously.

So what you are actually saying is that if you are given easy access to guns then you can not be trusted not to shoot down a bunch of people.
You want more gun control? Use both hands!

God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.

One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.

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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by SMJ » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:03 am

@Shooter - brilliantly put

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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by sa_ali » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:40 pm

Very well said, but i would say that there should be some sort of check on the sale of automatic weapons. First time buyer should not be able to buy automatic weapons. I dont think there is any debate on the extend of damage that would be caused by automatic vs semi automatic in same given situations.

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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by xl_target » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:40 pm

sa_ali wrote:Very well said, but i would say that there should be some sort of check on the sale of automatic weapons. First time buyer should not be able to buy automatic weapons. I dont think there is any debate on the extend of damage that would be caused by automatic vs semi automatic in same given situations.
You do know that the AR-15 is a semi automatic rifle?

Apart from its caliber, when you press the trigger, there is no difference in the end result than a Ruger 10/22 or any other semi auto rifle.
A single press of the trigger fires one shot.

Full auto firearms are very strictly regulated in the USA. If you can afford them, they require extensive background checks.
I've no idea how long it takes to get approved. Silencer approval was taking over 12 months, so its got to be similar or longer.
if there is even a hint of trouble in your background, you might get denied.

The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 (FOPA) decreed that no new full auto firearms could be manufactured for civilian sale after 1986.
So there is a finite pool of machineguns for civilian sale in the USA. Since the demand is much greater than supply, prices are very high.
A legal M16, made before 1986 and registered with the BATFE, thus making it transferable, cost tens of thousands of dollars.

The press wants you to believe that the kid had a full auto firearm. He did not.
There is no way an unemployed 19 year old, who was expelled from school, would be able to shell out $15,000 to $20,000 or be able to get the approval to purchase an M-16 (whihc is the full-auto version of the AR-15).

Remember, the mainstream media in the USA have an agenda; which is the total removal of guns from the hands of civilians, the Constitution be damned.
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by sks76239 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:49 pm

The gun enthusiasts of India are worse than American liberals.

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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by sa_ali » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:45 am

xl_target wrote:
sa_ali wrote:Very well said, but i would say that there should be some sort of check on the sale of automatic weapons. First time buyer should not be able to buy automatic weapons. I dont think there is any debate on the extend of damage that would be caused by automatic vs semi automatic in same given situations.
You do know that the AR-15 is a semi automatic rifle?
This is definitely new to my understanding, thanks for clarifying it, in this your point is well taken that a guy with semi 10/22 would be able to fire same round of ammo as AR 15

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Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Post by xl_target » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:40 am

While the bullet diameter is close, there is a difference in the velocity generated by the .223 Remington vs. the .22LR.
What I meant is that semi auto rifles function in a similar fashion; one pull of the trigger=1 shot.
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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