Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by partheus » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:24 pm

It's pretty ironic that the IOF of all the PSUs has been diseased for so long even when some of its peers have done exceedingly well. India's situation is a lot like Israel's, i.e. we're surrounded by hostile countries on both our sides. The terrorist orgs that countries on the other side of the planet are worried about are right on our doorsteps. You'd think the government and the people would prioritize defense over everything else and we'd be at the forefront of defense tech.

In such a situation, I am not sure how long the IOF and its lackeys hope to hang on. While government employees may only concern themselves with "secured jobs" and pensions, their customers are being given more options now, and rightfully so given the inevitability of the threats we face. As Timmy says, no company can thrive if its employees don't fear losing their jobs in which case, privatization of defense is the only option we have.

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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by Woods » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:52 pm

Now they started rattling . They never cared , never worked and now they panic !!!! Only if you had done your job sincerely. RIP - from an Ashani owner

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 2-amp.html
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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by pran80 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:40 am

Article by Lt Gen. Retd HS Panag. This article also talks about INSAS splattering oil on firing so much so that Mr. Panag had to get eye patches for his troops.
I still don't understand the phenomenon of a rifle splattering oil.
Dear seniors is it even possible unless and until the rifle carries an oil can.
Article can be accessed here: https://theprint.in/opinion/i-suffered- ... 0s/746433/
Regards,
Pranjal Tripathi

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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by winnie_the_pooh » Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:50 am

The INSAS is so beautifully machined and so lovingly put together that it needs a generous amount of oil to function.

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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by mundaire » Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:18 am

pran80 wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:40 am
Article by Lt Gen. Retd HS Panag. This article also talks about INSAS splattering oil on firing so much so that Mr. Panag had to get eye patches for his troops.
I still don't understand the phenomenon of a rifle splattering oil.
Dear seniors is it even possible unless and until the rifle carries an oil can.
Article can be accessed here: https://theprint.in/opinion/i-suffered- ... 0s/746433/
Regards,
Pranjal Tripathi
From what I understand, if the INSAS is over oiled (very common in unit armouries), the excess oil ends up getting splattered right into the eyes of the shooter.

winnie_the_pooh wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:50 am
The INSAS is so beautifully machined and so lovingly put together that it needs a generous amount of oil to function.
ROTFL
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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by Woods » Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:27 am

They just gotta go .
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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by timmy » Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:58 pm

mundaire wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:18 am
pran80 wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:40 am
Article by Lt Gen. Retd HS Panag. This article also talks about INSAS splattering oil on firing so much so that Mr. Panag had to get eye patches for his troops.
I still don't understand the phenomenon of a rifle splattering oil.
Dear seniors is it even possible unless and until the rifle carries an oil can.
Article can be accessed here: https://theprint.in/opinion/i-suffered- ... 0s/746433/
Regards,
Pranjal Tripathi
From what I understand, if the INSAS is over oiled (very common in unit armouries), the excess oil ends up getting splattered right into the eyes of the shooter.
When I was young, I worked on electromechanical switching systems for the telephone company. For everything in the telephone company, there were specifications, and this included how much lubricant to put on every lubricated part of a switch. For instance, in some places, one "drop" was specified, and there was a specification on how to dip the artist's brush in the lubricant and how much was to be wiped off on the edge of the bottle before applying. Nothing, not one thing, was left to one's discretion or to chance.

Then I worked for a bunch of hillbillies (it was the Mountain West, but they were stupid, like hillbillies) who slathered on the lubricant such that it would drip down the shaft and on to the switches below, getting into the wipers and contacts and causing all sorts of problems. They considered that "proper".

Nobody seemed to consider that, in all of that lubricant, the only amount that actually did any lubrication was the tiny bit between the two moving parts. The rest was a waste.

Then, more recently, during Bush's Second Iraq War, there was the case of the National Guard supply unit that took a wrong turn and wound up in a town where they were surrounded by Iraqi soldiers. Some were killed, and a young woman soldier was captured. Later on, a bunch of special forces had to attempt a harrowing mission to free her at great risk to their lives.

It turned out that, during their wrong turn battle, the rifles of the National Guard troops had jammed, and they were unable to fight back. Not long afterwards, I went back to college and in my labs was a young fellow who'd served a few of tours in Iraq by then. He told me that the reason their rifles jammed was because they hadn't maintained them properly.

Apparently, the proper lubricant wasn't always available.Whether this was the case here or not, I don't know, but my lab partner told me that many troops were using WD40 to clean and lubricate their weapons, and WD40 would, he said, attract every speck of dust in a very dusty environment for miles around, causing the weapon to jam very soon after it was cleaned with WD40.

Looking into this, I do understand that WD40 contains hexane, which works as a moisture displacement agent, and "fish oil" which apparently collects the dust. I use the stuff to clean tree sap off of my car, but not for very much else. Many other people, however, swear by the stuff for use on everything for any reason.

There are some people who just can't listen to facts and data -- there's not much help for the person who knows everything, because they can be taught nothing.

But the problem is compounded when troops, or we are issued inferior equipment. I had to chuckle to myself when I saw the picture of the "new" Webley: shiny and polished, it had the same "safety" as the IOF revolver. There must be some real innovators at the new Webley, as well, to "design" a weapon that was no more than a rehash of some ancient relic.

Well, oil the thing up! It probably won't hurt a thing. As they say, here's mud in your eye! (This last sentence is meant to be sarcasm, not advice!!!)
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by Woods » Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:31 pm

They gotta go . Completely. As if they never existed . It were the fat belly of OFB personnel which was being fed at the cost of common man of India .
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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by pran80 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:58 pm

winnie_the_pooh wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:50 am
The INSAS is so beautifully machined and so lovingly put together that it needs a generous amount of oil to function.
This reminds me of the aftermath of infamous Bikru Village shootout(https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 046502.ece). The next day of this unfortunate incident i was watching some debate on news channel where some of the so called experts on crime analysis/police functioning
timmy wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:58 pm
mundaire wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:18 am
pran80 wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:40 am
Article by Lt Gen. Retd HS Panag. This article also talks about INSAS splattering oil on firing so much so that Mr. Panag had to get eye patches for his troops.
I still don't understand the phenomenon of a rifle splattering oil.
Dear seniors is it even possible unless and until the rifle carries an oil can.
Article can be accessed here: https://theprint.in/opinion/i-suffered- ... 0s/746433/
Regards,
Pranjal Tripathi
From what I understand, if the INSAS is over oiled (very common in unit armouries), the excess oil ends up getting splattered right into the eyes of the shooter.
When I was young, I worked on electromechanical switching systems for the telephone company. For everything in the telephone company, there were specifications, and this included how much lubricant to put on every lubricated part of a switch. For instance, in some places, one "drop" was specified, and there was a specification on how to dip the artist's brush in the lubricant and how much was to be wiped off on the edge of the bottle before applying. Nothing, not one thing, was left to one's discretion or to chance.

Then I worked for a bunch of hillbillies (it was the Mountain West, but they were stupid, like hillbillies) who slathered on the lubricant such that it would drip down the shaft and on to the switches below, getting into the wipers and contacts and causing all sorts of problems. They considered that "proper".

Nobody seemed to consider that, in all of that lubricant, the only amount that actually did any lubrication was the tiny bit between the two moving parts. The rest was a waste.

Then, more recently, during Bush's Second Iraq War, there was the case of the National Guard supply unit that took a wrong turn and wound up in a town where they were surrounded by Iraqi soldiers. Some were killed, and a young woman soldier was captured. Later on, a bunch of special forces had to attempt a harrowing mission to free her at great risk to their lives.

It turned out that, during their wrong turn battle, the rifles of the National Guard troops had jammed, and they were unable to fight back. Not long afterwards, I went back to college and in my labs was a young fellow who'd served a few of tours in Iraq by then. He told me that the reason their rifles jammed was because they hadn't maintained them properly.

Apparently, the proper lubricant wasn't always available.Whether this was the case here or not, I don't know, but my lab partner told me that many troops were using WD40 to clean and lubricate their weapons, and WD40 would, he said, attract every speck of dust in a very dusty environment for miles around, causing the weapon to jam very soon after it was cleaned with WD40.

Looking into this, I do understand that WD40 contains hexane, which works as a moisture displacement agent, and "fish oil" which apparently collects the dust. I use the stuff to clean tree sap off of my car, but not for very much else. Many other people, however, swear by the stuff for use on everything for any reason.

There are some people who just can't listen to facts and data -- there's not much help for the person who knows everything, because they can be taught nothing.

But the problem is compounded when troops, or we are issued inferior equipment. I had to chuckle to myself when I saw the picture of the "new" Webley: shiny and polished, it had the same "safety" as the IOF revolver. There must be some real innovators at the new Webley, as well, to "design" a weapon that was no more than a rehash of some ancient relic.

Well, oil the thing up! It probably won't hurt a thing. As they say, here's mud in your eye! (This last sentence is meant to be sarcasm, not advice!!!)
were debating on why all the policemen were not armed and those who were armed, why they didn't fire back?
They all had all the legal reasons on why or why not, anyway what caught my attention was when it came to weapons being carried by Police constables and one gentleman actually gloated over the fact and i quote him verbatim - INSAS is so advanced that if one drops it on the floor then it will stop functioning. He was actually advocating that our police carry such advanced weapons.
I stopped watching that channel since.
Thanks,
Pranjal Tripathi
@timmy it's always a pleasure to read your posts. I wish that someday I will be able to post something so much knowledgeable. Thanks a lot

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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by ashokgodara » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:39 am

Woods wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:44 am
Let's pitch for privatisation of these newly formed 6 PSUs. Unless they vanish , we are bound to pay for Ashani et al .
Private manufactured pistols are much inferior in quality compared to iof pistols.Lots of private firms have surfaced in India making revolver pistols.
Despite having strict laws in India for obtaining firearm license why would anyone invest money in such business where gun demand is already low
and manufactures will not gain much profit and chances of losses are very high or maybe they are gaining experience to take part in bidding of IOF
factories.This is recent image where a rapture raptured a pistol barrel with weak .32acp ammo.They cant make a decent .32 pistol how can we expect
from these private firms to make rev/pistols in higher caliber like .45 whereas a week .32ammo raptures a barrel of their pistol.I have never seen such thing with iof pistols.They dont even have knowledge of which steel to be used in making a pistol barrel.what do you all think how this barrel blew up
with a week 32 caliber cartridge.To my mind they are using very hard high carbon steel and doesn't do heat treatment to relieve stress in steel caused by drilling and reaming.If anyone is willing to buy pistol from seikh arms kindly see this photo and do some research before buying anything.
regards
Vikram kindly move the post to other section if you feel it does not belong here
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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by timmy » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:18 am

ashokgodara wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:39 am
.32ammo raptures a barrel of their pistol.I have never seen such thing with iof pistols. They dont even have knowledge of which steel to be used in making a pistol barrel. what do you all think how this barrel blew up with a week 32 caliber cartridge. To my mind they are using very hard high carbon steel and doesn't do heat treatment to relieve stress in steel caused by drilling and reaming. If anyone is willing to buy pistol from seikh arms kindly see this photo and do some research before buying anything.
Wow! Shocking!

I'm going to check to see if any of my water pipes are missing.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by ashokgodara » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:14 am

https://theprint.in/opinion/i-suffered- ... 0s/746433/

The INSAS rifle, a poor copy of the AK-47, splattered oil into the eyes when fired even five years after its introduction. In 2005, in my formation, we had to fix a rexine eye patch to prevent the same.

There will be many such articles in coming days to justify selling IOF factories to private firms.This person writes utter nonsense you can guess
his knowledge when he says INSAS is copy of AK47?.almost every fellow member here knows insas is copy of FN.CAL not AK47 but mr panag doesn't knows this.When a rifle is splattering oil in eyes it is because of over lubing.will a commanding officer will order eye patches to prevent this or just tell
soldiers to apply a very thin coat of lubricant on moving parts?if a soldier dips a rifle in oil drum for oiling then uses it rifle will throw back oil.In army officers frequently inspects rifles of soldiers and they will find a way to march a soldiers 10,15km if they don't find weapon cleaned and lubed to their satisfaction sometime they will make soldiers run even when everything is fine so out of fear soldiers starts lubing rifle heavily.Oil used by army is very good i have a bottle of it i once applied a thin coat to my pistol and after six month oil was still there.INSAS was a failed project we all know that.IOF employs are worse they do not like to work but same IOF produced world class and every kind of arms and ammo which is still operational today under British rule.most rifle parts are not made by iof they are made under contract by others.to get these work contractor pays heavy bribe to officials otherwise he will not get the contract.to earn some profit contractor makes low quality parts so whole thing produced is inferior in quality. Make strict laws to curb corruption in iof quality will increase itself. handing them over to private firm is not good thing it will increase army budget.Indian army last year purchased 1.50lakh rifle in 7.62x51 from US it was need of hour at that time but if you want bigger caliber revert back to FN FAL what's wrong in that rifle? Dissolving IOF board was good thing board was reeking of corruption. Now out of fear of loosing jobs employees will start working hard.
When Kesari movies was released this Mr panag even after being a army officer was first to criticize it claiming it was myth whereas every scholar in world believes it was greatest last stand taken by Indian soldiers of all time non less then spartan last stand at battle of Thermopylae. But mr panag have different view.read it you will know caliber of this man.His Criticism was for other reason which i shall not discuss here or anywhere.
https://theprint.in/opinion/what-akshay ... hi/213646/

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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by timmy » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:21 pm

I believe that you will find that, while the INSAS borrows features from other rifles, such as the FN FAL, it is basically an AK-pattern rifle in operation.

http://www.military-today.com/firearms/insas.htm says:
The INSAS is based on a Soviet AKM, but has a number of features from other successful designs, such as an FN FAL (gas system), HK33 (charging handle), Steyr AUG (magazine), and Galil (side-folding metal buttstock, used on the INSAS Mk.1A).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INSAS_rifle says:
The INSAS is primarily based on the AKM but incorporates features from other rifles. It has a chrome-plated bore. The barrel has a six-groove rifling. The basic gas operated long stroke piston and the rotating bolt are similar to the AKM/AK-47.

It has a manual gas regulator, similar to that of FN FAL, and a gas cutoff for launching grenades. The charging handle is on the left instead of on the bolt carrier, similar in operation to the HK33. There is a change lever on the left side of the receiver above the pistol grip. It can fire a three-round burst or in semi-automatic mode. The cyclic rate averages at 650 rpm. The transparent plastic magazine was adapted from the Steyr AUG. The rear sight lies on one end of the breech cover and is calibrated to 400 meters.
The book that the Wikipedia article references in the quote above, "Tactical Small Arms of The 21st Century" says this on page 207:
The INSAS rifle has some features of the Kalashnikov design, but with several modifications. The basic gas operated action with long stroke gas piston and a rotating bolt, as well as the stamped sheet steel receiver are generally similar to AKM/AK-74 rifles, but the INSAS has a manual gas regulator, similar in design to that of FAL rifles, as well as a gas cutoff for launching grenades. The charging handle has been moved from the bolt carrier to the left side of the forearm, similar in position and operation to German G3/HK33. The selector switch is located at the left side of the receiver above the pistol grip for easy access by the shooter’s thumb and allows semiautomatic and three-round burst fire. The rifle is fitted with a folding carrying handle and either a solid or folding metal buttstock. Furniture can be made from wood or polymer. Standard magazines are made from translucent polymer and accommodate 20 or 30 rounds. The 30-round magazines are primarily for the INSAS LMG but can also be used in the rifle. The sights consist of a hooded front, mounted on top of the gas block, and a diopter rear mounted on the receiver cover. The flash suppressor accepts NATO-specification rifle grenades.
This picture:

Image

From this site: https://www.forpoliceman.in/2016/03/556 ... a-aur.html

Is about the best picture of a partially disassembled INSAS that I could find. Even though it has small resolution, the unmistakable AK-style bolt carrier and rotating bolt head are clearly seen.

An FN FAL, on the other hand, does not use a rotary bolt, but is a "planar" design (it works in two dimensions, rather than three, like AK weapons with a rotating bolt) and uses a tipping bolt, much like the Soviet SKS.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by pran80 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:57 pm

@Timmy
One of our member CC had done a technical review of INSAS in 2010. The link to the same is - viewtopic.php?t=9131

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Re: Government dissolves Ordnance Factory Board

Post by timmy » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:41 pm

Yes, I miss Brother cottage cheese!
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

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