Indian made Under Over Guns for shooters .

[varun.bhargav]

I agree with you captain Rakshit. And i do agree with this fact . As a matter of fact our root is our main concern The Bhargav Arms company and whatever capital we do have comes direcly or indirectly from our factory only . But i also have to think about returns coz with no returns no factory can survice . Neither i will be able to properly continue my production and give proper salary to my workers . Also i am not running a private Ltd firm wherewe put the M.D. put his salary for personal incomes and household expenses . So if i invest i will have to calculate my breakeven point and that i dont want to be 50 years . I dont disagree with you but i am just answering to the practical facts .

-- Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:18 pm --

and i am also trying to complete my site and catoluge ASAP . But i can give you a small overview of the products i make and pictures of The bhargav Arms Co to give an overview of what investment i have made on inftrsatructure

[sa_ali]

costumor satisfaction should be at the priority basis

I am sure with 800 quota also you should be able to recover investment.
I have come to realize by following sale section that there is no shortage of people willing to spend money on good product, provided the product is good.
Guns for 1-2 lac get sold off in matter of days not weeks.
It just the brand value and shortage of good quality weapon.
I wish you all the luck, slow steady i am sure we all should get there.

[winnie_the_pooh]

Varun,

Your response typifies the attitude of local gun makers.

1.They know next to nothing about gun manufacture.All have inherited their licenses. Before you respond by the typical "We have been making guns for ......." let me ask you a question.Can you make a gun with your own hands? Left to me only some one who can make a shotgun himself would get a license.

2.They have no desire to acquire new skills typified by your response that you have no time to apprentice with some to learn how to make guns.

3.They whine about lack of 'good material' typically ignoring that you can get any quality steel in India.In fact,I will say that they know jack shit about metallurgy and have no idea about the alloys and their heat treatment.The thing is that if you want steel of a specific quality you have to order it in bulk and this costs money which you and your ilk are not willing to do.

4.The excuse about low quotas is also just that.Low production quotas have no bearing on quality.If this were the case then some of the best known gun makers in the world would be producing guns shoddier than yours as they make considerably less than 800 a year.

5. Excuse no4 is used to justify poor quality by saying that it makes investments in machines and processes un-economical and therefore they have to rely on doing things manually and as a result the poor quality of what they make.
You can make a good quality shotgun with just chisels and files.The fact of the matter is that hired workers are used to make guns on a seasonal basis.None has bothered to hire and train workforce.Not their fault as they themselves know nothing so what can they teach others.

[The Doc]

OOO la laa !! The shottie with a folding butt ? Some guys are simply in love with it here on IFG .

[cottage cheese]

The excuse about low quotas is also just that.Low production quotas have no bearing on quality.If this were the case then some of the best known gun makers in the world would be producing guns shoddier than yours as they make considerably less than 800 a year.

... I believe Holland&Holland currently builds only 80 guns a year...

[grewal]

Varun,

Your response typifies the attitude of local gun makers.

1.They know next to nothing about gun manufacture.All have inherited their licenses. Before you respond by the typical "We have been making guns for ......." let me ask you a question.Can you make a gun with your own hands? Left to me only some one who can make a shotgun himself would get a license.

2.They have no desire to acquire new skills typified by your response that you have no time to apprentice with some to learn how to make guns.

3.They whine about lack of 'good material' typically ignoring that you can get any quality steel in India.In fact,I will say that they know jack shit about metallurgy and have no idea about the alloys and their heat treatment.The thing is that if you want steel of a specific quality you have to order it in bulk and this costs money which you and your ilk are not willing to do.

4.The excuse about low quotas is also just that.Low production quotas have no bearing on quality.If this were the case then some of the best known gun makers in the world would be producing guns shoddier than yours as they make considerably less than 800 a year.

5. Excuse no4 is used to justify poor quality by saying that it makes investments in machines and processes un-economical and therefore they have to rely on doing things manually and as a result the poor quality of what they make.
You can make a good quality shotgun with just chisels and files.The fact of the matter is that hired workers are used to make guns on a seasonal basis.None has bothered to hire and train workforce.Not their fault as they themselves know nothing so what can they teach others.

+1

[bandukbhandar]

I fully agree with winnie_the_pooh and cottage cheese.

[cottage cheese]

Actually to be fair and somewhat objective, lets all rather be encouraging Varun to make an effort in the right direction. We achieve nothing of repute by being too negative. After all it doesn't hurt to be a little optimistic...as long as it does not include babus and the government ...

Lets also try be objective enough to realize that one cannot become a H&H or Purdey overnight... also as beautiful and awesome as Bespokes can be, I'd rather have the infusion of some very good quality Indian made 'off-the-shelf' guns into the market. Certainly they'll need to be way above the standards of the current crop of blunderbusses that are currently stagnating the market... but again one needn't go the path of a bespoke. Peterdk's participation and contribution is welcome and priceless, yet most gentlemen here seem to blurring the lines between the astronomical bespoke and the 'regular' high quality gun. Miles of difference here.

How about encouraging the budding and flowering of something nice for a change? India needs it.

regards,
cc

[dev]

+1 to that CC.

[peterdk]

guy's it dos not have to be either or, there is room for most types of guns in the shooting field, but i do agree that it seems that what you guy's need is is a decent priced shotgun with some nice lines and a good balance, this is by no means impossible since it is being done all over europe, and i am sure that if you stay patient for a short while longer, there will be a few new products coming your way.

best

peter

[winnie_the_pooh]

CC,

As always a very sensible reply.However if you read Varuns posts,it seems that after realizing the financial input required to produce something better he has lost all interest.If he were so interested in producing a better product he would try to improve his SxS's.

i am sure that if you stay patient for a short while longer, there will be a few new products coming your way.

We are in dire need of it.It will be a good kick in the rear to guys producing garbage so far.

[Sakobav]

Stop making those hockey sticks or whatever those ugly things are and focus on double sxs or maybe a good single would do agree with winnie and cc ...

[The Doc]

Stop making those hockey sticks or whatever those ugly things are and focus on double sxs or maybe a good single would do

"Et tu, Brute?"

[Biren]

Who are the customers for shotguns with:

- Ban on hunting
- Stringent conditions by MHA (Licence, Ammo quota etc)

Naturally its going to be people participating in competition shooting. The currnet lot is no good (two three rounds at one go mostly) import is hard to come by unless one shoots MQS. Even after MQS, babus are there to be taken care, cost of foreign shotgun is prohibitively high.

That leaves for Indian Shotgun which can be used for competitive shooting. Now the market (excluding non wealthy villagers, security guards etc) comprises of shooters/HNC who can afford to pay three/four lac for gun alone. Now give them a gun for one lac you have a market (Also include maintanance, spare, accesories, customization etc).

If one has to survive then modernisation is required, but the problem is our friend does not want to invest required money and tries the old way out soliciting free advice which our friend peterdk has rightly pointed out " Serious gun related info not avaialble on internet chats" .

Cheers
Biren

[varun.bhargav]

Hi guys

Now the discussion goes the same round and round again . As in why Indian Gun Manfacturers we not able to reach the same quality as the one made in India . As Mr.Winnie said these are all excuses and really belive me i cant comment on that beacuse for commenting on this we need someone experienced like my father or some other person from manufacturing line to explain as in why they couldnot do what the england gun makers are doing . One question raised was of inheritence . I do agree if the policy was a bit relaxed and with new people entering the market and because of competition we might see some good products . But now its the fault of Indian Government who has made such policy . I only want to comment on the first question raised by Winnie can i make a gun . My grandfather worked as an apprentince for 10 years . He died at a young age of 43 but he used to make most of the guns by his hands when he was young . I am talking about the time when we used to manufacture 25 guns a month and even less . My father has also learned the same art from him . He knows how to make and he can make . I have explained this before i am new to this trade just 4 years back i joined and that also for 3 years i was in trading . Just last year only i joined hands with my father in manufacturing and i am in the learning stage . As a learner i have started learning designs and gathering knowledge about new machinery.

I do agree with this fact that indian gun manufacturers are not making guns upto the mark that can satisfy a good customer . But why this has happened for that i have to collect data from some experience people as in what their thinking was at that time . Please do understand i really cant comment on the past coz i was not there . I am here with a wish to make good guns either by myself or with some joint venture . And for that i require help of you guys who are techinacally sound with machines , designs and shotguns . I have not lost interest and i am working on getting something new i hope it works