Brno ZP49 Hard Hitter DeLuxe.

[Mack The Knife]

You have a CZ/Brno ZP 49, a fine gun by any standard you would like to apply.

Mehul, when time permits could you scan and e-mail the relevant page/s of the book you used to identify this gun? Would like to keep it as reference.

The gun is a true sidelock and the action is very nice for a gun at it's price.

It certainly looks like one and I guess Asif was right. We were talking on the phone earlier and he mentioned that it was a sidelock. This surprised me and I remarked that I thought it was a boxlock made to look like a sidelock. Isn't such a thing possible?

On an OT note, it is nice to see that rare and good guns are still available in India at good prices these days.

In your opinion, what would such a gun, in similar condition, cost in the U.S. or U.K.?

Thanks a mil for identifying it and the rather confidence inspiring post.

Mack The Knife

P.S.: I would have liked nothing more than to have this gun restored professionally but for now I will have to be content to work on it gradually and carefully.

P.P.S.: Mehul, would you know what the 'P' in ZP49 stands for?

[Mack The Knife]

Mehul,

Does the book say anything about Special Poldi Elektro? Is that the name for the barrel steel?

Thanks.

Mack The Knife

[Mack The Knife]

Buy it and then forget about what you have paid for it.

Penpusher, you would have been the very last person on this site who I thought would say that.

Dealers buying price 45-60,000/-

As Grumpy is my witness, that is exactly what I thought it would be.

asking price 80-95,000/-.

Bang on target! Have a cigar! 95 is indeed what he started at. He has come down to 83 at the moment but I have now sent special agent Arif Ali (Asif's brother) on mission You Jolly Well Get Him To Reduce The Price Or Else!

Mack The Knife

[Mack The Knife]

Grumps,

Will try and do better pics as communicated in the e-mail. If you have a sample or two, to give me a better idea, that would help.

What is your opinion about the rust in front of the rib?

Do 17.4 and * denote a full choke?

Thanks.

Mack The Knife

[Grumpy]

How can you have rust `in front of the rib` ? In front of the rib is fresh air. You`ll have to explain that one Dodger.
17.4mm is 0.685" which must refer to the choke diameter as it is far too tight to be the barrel diameter of a 12-bore ( which is nominally .729" ) How much choke that represents is impossible to say unless one knows the actual bore sizes but the implication is that the gun is VERY tightly choked. 44 thou would be a LOT of choke.
You know how to take pictures of a gun Dodger - close-up, straight on shots are what are required.

[mehulkamdar]

Mack The Knife,

I'll scan and mail the pages today. Don't go by the guideline prices in the book - they are for unengraved guns as you would see. The engraved models were not sold in the USA and this is a US dealers' guide. I don't know what the "P" stands for though I'll try and find out. Just give me a couple of days for that. As you would see, the book in question does not have an expansion.

Good buy, buddy! Cheers!

[Grumpy]

Sorry Dodger - just found a whole page of photographs and correspondence that I didn`t realise existed.
Yes, the gun is a Brno - it`s too old to be a CZ. The pictures of the Brno logo shown are largely irrelevent as Brno and CZ shared the same logo and variations for much of their time. `Zbrojovka` translates to `armoury` and the `Z` within a circle indicates that a/the gun was made by a Czech national armoury.
The gun is a sidelock non-ejector.
I see what you mean about the rust. That would be pretty terrifying if it were further down the rib. As it is you will have to hope that it has not penetrated too far down or into the barrels. When you get the gun you`ll have to try and remove any loose scale with a stiff wire and flood it with WD40 and hope that it penetrates to all the rust. I do know a way to help ensure that the rust is killed which I`ll tell you about via email.

[Mr.X]

Gun is a no buy

1. A gun in fair condition, not good condition. A closet gun, that has been sitting around and aged due to disuse. Could be rusted inside.

2. Too much drop at the heel of stock, gun will kick because of this. Not good for trap/skeet unless you hold your head unsupported. Unsupported head will cause changed point of impact for sideways and up targets. It is a hunting gun.

3. Forearm is splinter kind, too narrow, if shooting too many target shots, barrels will get hot. Unless you buy a gun boot, barrels will feel uncomfortable.

It is a true sidelock built with German tooling and should be strong, action seems tight.

Rust at the end should be a concern, it might have penetrated deep. Though pressure at the muzzle is much less, so is the wall thickness. A risk you will have to decide upon?

To sum it a person used to HW Air-Rifles (BMW's of the Air-Rifle world), buying this would be like buying a old Ford model C in fair condition. Hardly a pre.scription for hapiness.

PS: Went over pictures, noticed metric choke constriction of 17.4 a tight one, from the pre-plastic wad era. Will pattern very tightly with modern shells (Astrams) and not good for slugs (tight choke and condition of gun). Useless for skeet due to tight choke.

[mehulkamdar]

Mack The Knife,

PM me your phone number. URGENT. Talked to a friend who has some info for you. WIll explain when I call. Also check your PM.

Need to talk to you.

Mehul

[eljefe]

Mr. X,
Thanks for your observations:
Your flag of convenience shows USA, but you seem to be familiar with Astrams-Indian background?
skeet / Trap is not allowed in MANY if not all gun clubs/ranges in India with a S/S....O/U only.
This is , as you rightly surmised, a hunting gun, so the rest of your observations dont hold good reg- skeet etc

[shahid]

My cousin who is a phenomenal shot had the same gun. It was found in mint condition from a dealer in Khagaria, Bihar. A very large number of these guns were imported in India pre 1985 and still do the rounds in the second hand market.

It is a gun similar to Webley Scott or GECO Germany, which has a nice balance, delivers a good pattern and you do not have to worry about it while travelling off road like you do for a Holland, Purdey, Churchill or Boss. If it takes a few scratches, no problem.

From the pictures it is evident that this gun had not been kept very well, even if it was cleaned and oiled once every two months things would have been better, but the damage is not much and it can be restored back to good propotions with a bit of work on it.

[shahid]

And Astrams are not the load for trap / skeet but maybe for some skid shooting.

Astrams are heavy 32 gram loads. Most clay shooting is done with 24 gram or a max of 28 gram load now.

Moreover I am yet to find Astrams in no. 7 1/2, 8 or 9, 9 1/2 which can be used for Skeet, Trap, Sporting Clays.

IFG members if they have observed any other number pls fill in.

In India I have purchased and used ASTRAM no. 1, 2, 3,4 and 6 only till date.

Skid shooting of course may be done with bazookas, 7.62 mm, 105 mm Howitzers, and shot sizes like LG / SG / dust, No. 12, anything. Army issue .303 cartridges also have been known to meet the case in the past.

[art_collector]

Guns kept in rexine gun covers often get rusted from the muzzle end ...like this gun has got rusted....so its more of disuse than misuse

[mehulkamdar]

Shahid,

Excellent posts. And a very appropriate response to the skid shooter in our midst.

BTW I replied to your mail albeit a little late last Thursday. I shall call you this week - any time you prefer? Let me know by mail/PM.

Cheers!

[shahid]

Sure Mehul. Give me a call any time. Mostly I call my parents about 7 / 8 PM Dubai time, which is about 9 / 10 AM in USA. I assume Cinncinati is on the same time zone as Chicago ?

But to make things easier I am awake everyday from 8 AM to 12 AM usually and Dubai is + 4 Hrs GMT.