Shotgun for self defense

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StampMaster
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Shotgun for self defense

Post by StampMaster » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:57 pm

Hello All,

I am new member and have little knowledge on arms. I've applied for gun license and expecting to receive it in a month's time. We live in a remote place about 15kms from nearest town and there is enough problem with robberies almost every month.

I am looking for a shotgun and a handgun (alternate safety), with enough muscle to scare and harm when attacked. I prefer to get a new one or single owned. Your suggestion on model, make, brand and price are appreciated. Thanks.

Spl Req- Low priced ammo capability.

Stamp Master

Edit- I was posting my first post and received call from the local police, stating my license can be collected this weekend.
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Re: Shotgun for self depense

Post by goodboy_mentor » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:48 pm

May read this http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 20#p146420 and also search threads in Shotguns Section.
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Re: Shotgun for self depense

Post by StampMaster » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:20 pm

Thanks for early reply goodboy_mentor. However the link you provided does not provide me enough info. After searching the internet I think a 12 bore DDBL or pump action will be a good idea. Experienced and senior are requested to provide some brands and price.
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Re: Shotgun for self depense

Post by kalashnikovcult » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:23 pm

pump action is a prohibited bore
cu kar az hama hilate dar guzasht
halal ast burdan ba shamshir dast.


When all other means have failed,it is righteous to draw the sword

-- Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj

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Re: Shotgun for self depense

Post by Vineet » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:06 am

kalashnikovcult wrote:pump action is a prohibited bore
Pump action is non-prohibited. Semi auto shotguns and rifles are prohibited.
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Re: Shotgun for self depense

Post by goodboy_mentor » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:41 am

In the Indian scenario, most of the people go for 12 guage DBBLs mainy because of price of these locally made(usually around Rs. 25- 30,000) is much less as compared with pump action shotguns(around Rs. 100,000). Also if you read the experiences with IOF pump action of some members on this forum, it appears that it has some issues cycling the paper cartridges.

Prices are dependent on various factors. You may try contacting couple of arms dealers from the yellow pages of this website to get an idea.

It is just a rumor created by some figment of imagination that pump actions are prohibited bore. Probably because MHA is reported to have asked IOF to stop selling pump actions in civil market. Only the shotguns having barrel length less than twenty inches or semi autos are considred prohibited bore.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Shotgun for self defense

Post by StampMaster » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:38 am

Do any one own a SXS or O&U ddbl (12gauge & Rifle combo). A 12 gauge .22 cal, and How good are they? I am thinking of such a combo is mainly for short and long distance firing.
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Re: Shotgun for self defense

Post by goodboy_mentor » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:34 pm

I had read a post by one member on this forum mentioning that he has a combination gun. You cannot buy it if your license says something like NPB Shotgun or NPB Rifle. Ypu can buy if it says NPB Shotgun/Rifle. Yes they were mainly created for hunters for shooting at short and long distances. Hunting for all practical purposes is banned in India.
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Re: Shotgun for self depense

Post by StampMaster » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:00 pm

goodboy_mentor wrote:In the Indian scenario, most of the people go for 12 guage DBBLs mainy because of price of these locally made(usually around Rs. 25- 30,000) is much less as compared with pump action shotguns(around Rs. 100,000). Also if you read the experiences with IOF pump action of some members on this forum, it appears that it has some issues cycling the paper cartridges.

Prices are dependent on various factors. You may try contacting couple of arms dealers from the yellow pages of this website to get an idea.

It is just a rumor created by some figment of imagination that pump actions are prohibited bore. Probably because MHA is reported to have asked IOF to stop selling pump actions in civil market. Only the shotguns having barrel length less than twenty inches or semi autos are considred prohibited bore.
How about ammo? How much will it cost? And the combo gun (12 Gauge and 22 Cal) i was inquiring was for defense. I personally like SXS or O/U one when compared to pump action. :)
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Re: Shotgun for self depense

Post by kalashnikovcult » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:59 pm

Vineet wrote:
kalashnikovcult wrote:pump action is a prohibited bore
Pump action is non-prohibited. Semi auto shotguns and rifles are prohibited.
i may be wrong but if you can help me by explaining this which is not placed in civilian category

http://ofb.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/6.htm

here is all who can apply :

APPLICATIONS :
Banks security
Anti insurgent applications
Industrial security
Personal security
Sporting Arm
Anti Riot role by use of Rubber Ball non-lethal ammunitionv
cu kar az hama hilate dar guzasht
halal ast burdan ba shamshir dast.


When all other means have failed,it is righteous to draw the sword

-- Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj

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Re: Shotgun for self defense

Post by goodboy_mentor » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:01 am

How about ammo? How much will it cost?
Price of cartridges:
12 guage http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=8505
.22 lr http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 0&start=15

Price of guns:
12 guage http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?t=2841
.22 lr as per IOF website the total price(including taxes) is Rs. 42,810 (ex-Ishapore) including cost of essential spares.
And the combo gun (12 Gauge and 22 Cal)
Not sure. For latest prevailing prices for guns and their ammunition please contact the arms dealers.
i was inquiring was for defense.
For self defense and home defense as compared to .22 lr, 12 gauge shot gun is the king.
if you can help me by explaining this which is not placed in civilian category
Firearms that fall in category I(b) and I(c) of SCHEDULE -I under Arms Rules 1962, fall in category of prohibited bore firearms. Pump action shotgun does not fall in either category I(b) or category I(c) of SCHEDULE -I of Arms Rules 1962. Moreover banks security, industrial security, personal security, sporting arm are all civilian category applications.

I had read somewhere on this forum that IOF does not have any problem selling its pump action shotguns in civilian market. The mischief has been created by some letter from Ministry of Home Affairs to the IOF, asking it to not sell its pump action shotguns in civilian market, compelling IOF to stop further selling of its pump action shotguns. If you want to go to the bottom of this matter, you may do an RTI with IOF in a clever and skillful manner, to get a copy of that letter.
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Re: Shotgun for self defense

Post by StampMaster » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:57 am

goodboy_mentor - Thanks for the info and advice.

I am looking for a sub 25K SXS or O&U ddbl (fear or getting mugged for the gun and my budget restriction). I am from Hyd. Can anyone suggest a renowned gun dealer or manufacturer from Hyd. I'll be visiting a few shops to inquire and check a few models in my budget.

I'll try to post them soon for expert review (price, model, make etc).
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Re: Shotgun for self defense

Post by mundaire » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:01 am

Before the IOF can sell any of its products in the civilian market, they need to take permission from the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA). In the instance of the IOF pump action shotgun, this permission was initially given and a few examples were indeed sold in the civilian market. The MHA subsequently withdrew the permission and IOF was therefore forced to withdraw the model from future civilian sales. There are several rumors floating around as to why MHA withdrew permission for civilian sale, but no one knows for certain what exactly transpired.

As GBM has mentioned above, PA shotguns are very much in the NPB category. If you have any doubts please peruse the (very detailed) discussion on Prohibited Bores & Arms under the Legal Eagle section here. Further discussions on this subject may be posted on that thread in stead of this one.

StampMaster, in the sub-25K category you are essentially going to be looking at Indian made SxS shotguns. Most private Indian manufacturers are based in Munger (Bihar), Mandi (Himachal) & Jammu (J&K) but their products are retailed by dealers all over the country. IMHO in stead of picking up a new piece made by them (they suffer from inconsistent quality) try and look around for a second hand IOF made SxS DBBL in good condition - it should be in your budget range.

Cheers!
Abhijeet
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Re: Shotgun for self defense

Post by indigo_indo » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:01 pm

when it comes to shotgun , there is no match in comparison to a shot gun i have learned and understood in typical indian scenario where we get a limited quota of cartridges for practice . So if practice makes man perfect... having a gun and not used to it could make the situation of home defense even worst if the person is using other weapon ....

So we compare the apple with apple and not with pine apple... with a handgun ( of course .32 bore ) and a rifle ( .315 bore ) which are most commonly available of the category .

Secenerio : a drunk goon is standing outside your house and threatening you with a gun and challenging your manhood to come outside and face him and at this situation ay body`s blood will boil and this time to take a offensive step rather than be a coward and die everyday....

you take out your gun and not being a superhero of indian movies where there is never a miss and each bullet accounts a hit , the best way is to hide and shoot the intruder from the hiding where you take up the target all of sudden and without doing a self imposed harakiri by exposing yourself directly face to face.

well if you are prepared to hit the intruder do not fell in trap of firing in air , you are just alarming the other person and making him prepared to fire as soon as he see you . Just fire in air if he cannot see you and the people who are in support of him might run away hearing a shots and may be his courage may ward away.

firing a shot in air will make your options of self defense limited as you have wasted one out of six , 1 out of 5 and 1 out of two if you are using a handgun , rifle or a shot gun .

the first shot is most important as you know that it will fire ( provided safety lock is off ) and you not need it to reload in case of rifle and by cocking of revolver the instant and little trigger pull will make the things simpler.

1. revolver /pistol : due to ineffective range ( ineffective above 30 yards ) you need to get close to the goon and in that case you are just like a bullfighter wearing red underwear around your *ss and saying " aa bail mujhe maar "... , secondly at the peak of situation where the blood pressure and heart beat is at its peak the hands are shaking out of uncertainty and there are chances that the handgun needs very precise aim and practice as firing with single hand the shot can miss the target and in case of double action revolver tis better to cock the revolver hammer first and take a deep breath and aim and fire without hesitation ( of course at the bottom of the belt ) .

2. rifle : if shot with motive to wound and teach him a lesson than to kill him then it has to be sure that no one standing behind or the neighbour house may get the missed shot . and may land you in a trouble. secondly shaking hands may not find it easy to load the rifle again if there is gun shot from other side.

3. Shot gun : a naive person holding a gun with safety unlocked can point out and fire the 12 gauge birdshot and injure all the group of goons and making them disperse and wouded with a small small hot lead boiling inside their body will make any mighty heart panic and run in anticipation of the second shot that can come any time. the idea is that fire second shot only when it is safe and you have enough time to reload before any counter attack.

Any wrong move could be fatal and if the gun or its safety jams the situation could be revered....

therefore mi freinds if you take mi opinion for home defense any case mi first preference will be mi small 24" barrel o/u modern shot gun which i dry fire ( with snap caps ) and lubericate well maintained and familiar to mi hands and arms than mi iof revolver and .22 rifle.

rest when god made fingers they were also not alike... criticism or improvement in idea and opinion will improve mi knowledge as well as mindset .

regards
If you want peace ; you have to be prepared for war.....

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Re: Shotgun for self defense

Post by StampMaster » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:06 am

indigo_indo - Good one.

I already have 2 airguns which i maintain well. And I've been good at target shooting (20-30 mts range) with these. My family will be spending more time in farm, i am looking for a good weapon to counter attack or scare off the intruder.

Abhijeet- Thanks for the info.

Today i visited a gun store, they have a few guns 12bore- 28, 30 and 32 inch. 28inch priced at 25K MGM branded and the ammo costs Rs50 a pop IOF brand paper made.

I read in the forum that Khairuddin and Meher Singh are some good brands. I would like to know their cost in Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh

22 Feb
I've visited 2 shops in Hyd and was able to find an English shotgun, Modern O & U and a new MGM.

English Shotgun- DBBL around 30 years old, has light weight, double barrel and trigger. Has some small dents on barrel, teak wood butt Price Rs 45000 negotiable.

Modern O & U- Now readily available, will get on order. Priced Rs 55000.

MGM- DBBL, heavy, good finish, 28inch barrel. Priced Rs25000
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