101 years old J Purdey gun prise

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russianshooter3
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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by russianshooter3 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:42 am

Vikram wrote:Each proof house's marks are different.

I do not know what your source is but this is what it is.

http://www.shotguns.se/html/uk.html
sir source with link not full i have a professional book

full info about this mark

12 mark mean 65 mm chamber or may shorter have variants england shotgun with 55 mm and 45 mm chamber

12c mark mean 70 mm chamber

12cl or 12l mean 76 mm or longer chamber

if have any question take the paraffin wax and pour into the chamber and then measure its better ,then an dispute with a professional collector like me :cheers:

Sir if you like old marks on barrel may see many mark on old german and french shotguns its really badass!

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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by Vikram » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:03 am

russianshooter3 wrote:
Vikram wrote:Each proof house's marks are different.

I do not know what your source is but this is what it is.

http://www.shotguns.se/html/uk.html
sir source with link not full i have a professional book

full info about this mark

12 mark mean 65 mm chamber or may shorter have variants england shotgun with 55 mm and 45 mm chamber

12c mark mean 70 mm chamber

12cl or 12l mean 76 mm or longer chamber

if have any question take the paraffin wax and pour into the chamber and then measure its better ,then an dispute with a professional collector like me :cheers:

Sir if you like old marks on barrel may see many mark on old german and french shotguns its really badass!

I do not know where you are getting your information but you are wrong here.

This photo is taken from Birmingham Proof House. Straight from the original. Not some book. 12C here refers to the bore of the gun. Not the chamber length as chamber length is clearly given here.

http://www.gunproof.com/Proofing/proofing.html

Image
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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by russianshooter3 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:07 am

Vikram wrote:
russianshooter3 wrote:
Vikram wrote:Each proof house's marks are different.

I do not know what your source is but this is what it is.

http://www.shotguns.se/html/uk.html
sir source with link not full i have a professional book

full info about this mark

12 mark mean 65 mm chamber or may shorter have variants england shotgun with 55 mm and 45 mm chamber

12c mark mean 70 mm chamber

12cl or 12l mean 76 mm or longer chamber

if have any question take the paraffin wax and pour into the chamber and then measure its better ,then an dispute with a professional collector like me :cheers:

Sir if you like old marks on barrel may see many mark on old german and french shotguns its really badass!

I do not know where you are getting your information but you are wrong here.

This photo is taken from Birmingham Proof House. Straight from the original. Not some book. 12C here refers to the bore of the gun. Not the chamber length as chamber length is clearly given here.

http://www.gunproof.com/Proofing/proofing.html

Image
sir in source years 1910+
your wrong!

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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by Vikram » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:12 am

russianshooter3 wrote:
Vikram wrote:
russianshooter3 wrote: sir source with link not full i have a professional book

full info about this mark

12 mark mean 65 mm chamber or may shorter have variants england shotgun with 55 mm and 45 mm chamber

12c mark mean 70 mm chamber

12cl or 12l mean 76 mm or longer chamber

if have any question take the paraffin wax and pour into the chamber and then measure its better ,then an dispute with a professional collector like me :cheers:

Sir if you like old marks on barrel may see many mark on old german and french shotguns its really badass!

I do not know where you are getting your information but you are wrong here.

This photo is taken from Birmingham Proof House. Straight from the original. Not some book. 12C here refers to the bore of the gun. Not the chamber length as chamber length is clearly given here.

http://www.gunproof.com/Proofing/proofing.html

Image
sir in source years 1910+
your wrong!
We are going in circles here. Could you please share your source's details? Can you please cite an authoritative source on proof marks that says 12C means 2 3/4" chambers? Preferable from a British source?That photo I posted is from Birmingham Proof House's website.
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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by russianshooter3 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:28 am

Sir i use russian source only looks like guns.ru and other big russian source
topicstarter write about 2 3/4 chamber and he is right

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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by Vikram » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:39 am

We need proof. I am not saying that the original poster's gun does not have 2 3/4" chambers. I am asking for proof that shows it has 2 3/4" chambers. I am saying 12C in a diamond does not mean 2 3/4" chambers.
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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by russianshooter3 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:08 am

Vikram wrote:We need proof. I am not saying that the original poster's gun does not have 2 3/4" chambers. I am asking for proof that shows it has 2 3/4" chambers. I am saying 12C in a diamond does not mean 2 3/4" chambers.
12c its 2 3/4 chamber

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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by Vikram » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:40 am

russianshooter3 wrote:
Vikram wrote:We need proof. I am not saying that the original poster's gun does not have 2 3/4" chambers. I am asking for proof that shows it has 2 3/4" chambers. I am saying 12C in a diamond does not mean 2 3/4" chambers.
12c its 2 3/4 chamber
It means 12-bore choked.
IT REPLACED THE '12B NOT FOR BALL' MARK although 'Not for ball' marks were used well after 1887.
IT WAS IN USE BETWEEN 1887 AND 1954.
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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by Grumpy » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:45 am

12C in a diamond does NOT mean the barrel has 2 3/4" chambers !!!
The mark means that that the barrel is a 12-bore with choke.
This gun has 2 1/2 inch ( 65mm ) chambers.
The gun has issues - the triggers show rust marks for a start which probably means that there will be rust on the locks. There is also obvious wear. Can't see the inside of the barrels so can't tell if they are pitted and don't know what the bore sizes are unless I measure them.
The value is dependent upon condition.....in the UK anyway. In India it's a totally different market and this is obviously a valuable gun.

Added in 3 minutes 43 seconds:
Vikram has said it all and is absolutely correct.
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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by Pradyumna » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:31 am

I am having a Manton British gun with Birmingham proof marks. It has 12C mark inside a diamond with 1 1/8 oz load with clearly written 2 1/2" chamber.

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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by russianshooter3 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:01 am

Grumpy wrote:12C in a diamond does NOT mean the barrel has 2 3/4" chambers !!!
The mark means that that the barrel is a 12-bore with choke.
This gun has 2 1/2 inch ( 65mm ) chambers.
The gun has issues - the triggers show rust marks for a start which probably means that there will be rust on the locks. There is also obvious wear. Can't see the inside of the barrels so can't tell if they are pitted and don't know what the bore sizes are unless I measure them.
The value is dependent upon condition.....in the UK anyway. In India it's a totally different market and this is obviously a valuable gun.

Added in 3 minutes 43 seconds:
Vikram has said it all and is absolutely correct.
proof please!

Added in 1 minute 2 seconds:
Pradyumna wrote:I am having a Manton British gun with Birmingham proof marks. It has 12C mark inside a diamond with 1 1/8 oz load with clearly written 2 1/2" chamber.
and proof please

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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by Pradyumna » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:27 am

If some dear member provides me his whatsaap no. through PM, I will send the pic. of the gun to be posted here so that Russianshooter will stand educated. Sorry I don't know how to post pics here.

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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by Shabbu9x9 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:01 pm

This is  English Proof Marks from Birmingham proof
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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by Vikram » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:11 pm

russianshooter3 wrote:
Grumpy wrote:12C in a diamond does NOT mean the barrel has 2 3/4" chambers !!!
The mark means that that the barrel is a 12-bore with choke.
This gun has 2 1/2 inch ( 65mm ) chambers.
The gun has issues - the triggers show rust marks for a start which probably means that there will be rust on the locks. There is also obvious wear. Can't see the inside of the barrels so can't tell if they are pitted and don't know what the bore sizes are unless I measure them.
The value is dependent upon condition.....in the UK anyway. In India it's a totally different market and this is obviously a valuable gun.

Added in 3 minutes 43 seconds:
Vikram has said it all and is absolutely correct.
proof please!

Added in 1 minute 2 seconds:
Pradyumna wrote:I am having a Manton British gun with Birmingham proof marks. It has 12C mark inside a diamond with 1 1/8 oz load with clearly written 2 1/2" chamber.
and proof please
Russianshooter,

Grumpy was a Registered Firearms Dealer in the UK and traded in the gun business over decades, especially in British guns. His knowledge is truly encyclopaedic and he has written many articles too.

Since you ask for proof, here it is. Again. Both the photos are taken from the most authoritative work on firearms, " The Gun and Its Development" by WW Greener.

I am attaching the excerpts on London and Birmingham proof marks.Page# 298 & 299. The Greener book is available for download on this forum. It is worth reading. If you cannot find it, it can be downloaded from here. This link also shows the exact page where the proof marks are explained.

https://archive.org/details/gunitsdevel ... h/page/298

I seriously suggest you reread that Russian book. If what you say is really written there, I suspect that the man who wrote that book did not understand the original English text correctly.

I can see why you are confused that 12/LC means chamber length here. Before I write about that, I would like you to read the text in the second photo again.

Added in 5 minutes 20 seconds:
Shabbu9x9 wrote:This is  English Proof Marks from Birmingham proof

Sorry Shabbu,

Wrong information. Where did you get that?
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Re: 101 years old J Purdey gun prise

Post by russianshooter3 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:17 pm

Ok ok and what?

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