Indians For Guns

That it exits without dumping sufficient energy seems to be an issue.Also, it seemed to do very well against kevlar...

22 pistols per my personal experience are very finicky about the ammo atleast the browning buckmark I own is. In india prefer 32 acp


Good luck

Is there any restrictions in your state to take a .32 pistol for sports???

I stand corrected on this one Renjith. But while it is possible to practice sports with .32 acp it is much more easier and economical to do so in .22. My local club does not provide .32 ammo but I can easily get imported .22 at close to Rs. 10/-.

I've lost count of the number of times that I have had .22 LR fail to ignite.

Actually between me and my dad we have fired over 8000 .22 rounds in the past 2 years. This includes around 2000 from IOF. We both do not recollect even a single misfire. The only .22 which failed on us was from a batch of .22s that were confiscated from a shikari party and were lying with us for close to 30 years now. We had 2 or 3 misfires out of a box of 50.

On a .22 pistol at least you need the best quality ammo, perhaps the revolvers can handle better. I've had far too many failures with jamming, failed to fire with crappy rounds. CCI stingers work well with my ppk. But even with those I've had jamming issues if the rounds were dry cycled through it a few times.

Federal makes two loads for .32 Smith&Wesson Long. Both are 98 grains and factory loads generate 780fps and 132ft-lbs of energy at muzzle. (let us also include the other .32)

There is only one load for .32 ACP - 71 Grains/900fps @ muzzle/128ft-lbs @ muzzle.

For comparison purposes with .22 LR let us pick out CCI stingers and Aguila SuperMaximum CC.

1) CCI Stingers – 32 Grains/1640fps @ muzzle/191ft-lbs @ muzzle
2) Aguila SuperMaximum CC – 30 Grains/1700fps @ muzzle/192ft-lbs @ muzzle

Now it is possible that the ballistics for .32s are from a handgun length barrel and the ones for .22 LRs are rifle sizes. Now between a 18” barrel and a 4” barrel there is a loss of velocity of about 20% velocity. Factoring this into the equation;

1) CCI Stingers – 32 Grains/1312fps @ muzzle/122.28ft-lbs @ muzzle
2) Aguila SuperMaximum CC – 30 Grains/1360fps @ muzzle/123ft-lbs @ muzzle

Is that really so poor compared to 132 and 128 ft-lbs the .32 cartridges generate?

I've just been re-reading this thread and I found some statements that I would like to comment on.
These are actual measurements (below) using a chronograph.
These were measured using a 2-1/2" Beretta Bobcat and a 5 " barreled 1911-22 (and a quote from another thread that I had posted earlier).
Note that both these are semi- auto pistols. The barrel-cylinder gap is a revolver will cause a further degradation in velocity and consequently in Muzzle Energy.

With the Bobcat, shooting 36 gr. Mini Mags, we averaged 866 fps. Approx 61 ft. lbs.
With the SIG 1911-22, shooting 36 gr Mini Mags, we averaged 1074 fps. Approx 97 ft. lbs.
With the Bobcat, shooting 32 gr. CCI Stingers, we averaged 967.6 fps, Approx 68 ft. lbs.
WIth the SIG 1911-22, shooting 32 gr. CCI stingers, we averaged 1294.5 fps, approx 124 ft. lbs
As you can see, a significant gain with the extra 2.5 inches of barrel.

So how long is the barrel of the IOF .22 LR revolver? Isn't it 2-1/2"?

According to the IOF website the barrel length of the IOF .22 revolver is 66 mm or 2.598 inches
LINK HERE

F-N-Five-Seven

Thanks 5-7

Typically muzzle velocity mentioned for .22 lr,that you find on the net,is taken from a rifle barrel.It would drop when fired from a 2.5 inch barrel.It would be even less when the same round is fired in a revolver as compared to when fired in a pistol.

The .22 pistols that you find in India are old,some with worn out parts and springs.They make a poor choice for a SD handgun.

Interestingly, I tried to calculate the gain in muzzle velocity in terms of percentages by the inch and found something queer about 14" and 16" barrels!? What could be the explanation for this?
Of course the general trend is longer the barrel more the muzzle velocity. But another established fact is that with every inch of increase in barrel length the returns in terms of gain in muzzle velocity decrease (marginal decrease in utility). Also the velocity will continue to rise with the barrel length up to a certain point after which any actual increase in the barrel length will actually serve only to retard the velocity of the bullet (so we will start to see negative gains).

Actual source of data;
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html

I fire .22lr from my Walther TPH pistol and when I fire KF rounds the blow back is often not enough to complete a loading cycle. Hence I use imported ammo for SD and Indian for practice.

amk wrote:On a .22 pistol at least you need the best quality ammo, perhaps the revolvers can handle better. I've had far too many failures with jamming, failed to fire with crappy rounds. CCI stingers work well with my ppk. But even with those I've had jamming issues if the rounds were dry cycled through it a few times.

Hi..I was planning to buy a ppk/s in .22lr. Since u have experience in owning ppk in lr I would be grateful for your valuable input. Rgdrs. ...VJ

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xl_target wrote:

Skyman wrote:Xl what about the 7.62x25 Tok? Is it a viable alternative?

The Tokarev fires a round that has significantly better performance than either .22 LR or your .32. Definitely viable.
I have no experience with this pistol or caliber. I believe overpenetration with this caliber is an issue.
I believe Tim has a CZ 52 in that caliber, so he would be able to answer that question better than me.

7.62x25 is about the same as 9mm in energy, when military loads are compared. The two pistols that you might find in India chambered in it are the TT33 and the CZ 52. The TT33 is a strong design. The Chinese versions, which I expect would be the most common on the Indian market, can be roughly finished, yet they are still strong and functional. The problem with them is that they are not safe to carry with a round in the chamber, meaning that you have to manually cycle the slide to put a round in the chamber, cock the action, and bring it to being ready to fire.

The CZ 52 is very nicely made. Although a small amount larger than the TT33, it weighs less. It has a rather modern and ingenious design -- just what you would expect of the Czechs. They have a parkerized matte finish. The grip is somewhat large, so if your hands are small, you may find it a little more challenging to hold and control.

I don't know what the 7.62x25 ammunition situation is, so I would make sure you can obtain a supply. If you can, this would probably be one of the more powerful handguns that you can shoot practically.

Carrying one will not be like carrying an Ashani, however. These are larger pistols.

When shooting one, it can be LOUD! The operating pressures are rather high and the crack it makes when being fired is quite noticeable. When you shoot one at the range, you will get plenty of attention!

My suggestion, when comparing 22LR and 32ACP from short barreled "mouse guns," would be to go by this data, as it is obtained from short barrels and includes gel penetration tests:

22LR: http://web.archive.org/web/201109060911 ... el22lr.htm

32ACP: http://web.archive.org/web/201109060911 ... l32acp.htm

After you consider these data, read through this paper from the FBI on handgun effectiveness: http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

If you are looking for the shortcut answer, I'm not sure that there is one, but my opinion is that the FBI's judgment, as expressed in the paper, is sufficient for my purposes: 12 inches of penetration is very borderline. Comparing this conclusion with Golden Loki's gel penetration tests for 32ACP and 22LR indicates to me that the 22LR in a small pistol is insufficient for self defense.

You may argue over the validity of gel tests vs. real world situations, and I can accept that gel tests are not the last word on the matter. However, given that it is unlikely that I'll ever duplicate the Thompson-LaGarde tests on beeves and cadavers, the data I've presented in this post is sufficient for me to make a decision on the matter.

Although I have already shared this video on group, but again sharing on this post for clarity on issue, by watching field comparison of .22 LR vs .32 ACP