A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

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AgentDoubleS
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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by AgentDoubleS » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:03 pm

There is no 'sort of correct'.

There's a side saying the timelines are true and the company has a plan to stick to it by delivering them in March'21. That view shouldn't be attacked but it can very well be countered.

There is another view that that's just hogwash and our experience with manufacturing, government policies and licensing tells us that CMTPL cannot setup such complex a manufacturing and quality infrastructure in a highly regulated industry in such a short turn around. The timelines will be stretched. It's not called rumour mongering, it's called a discussion.

What I have an issue with is drammentitekar or anyone else being condescending towards anyone who doesn't share their view. I really hope manufacturing starts soon and Glocks are available in March '21 but I'm seeing information that suggests otherwise, others are too.

Let's have everyone present their own facts and views in a respectful and open manner. Trying to choke an open discussion is not in favour of gun lovers or the spirit of this forum.

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by Drameenkitekar » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:56 pm

AgentDoubleS wrote:There is no 'sort of correct'.

There's a side saying the timelines are true and the company has a plan to stick to it by delivering them in March'21. That view shouldn't be attacked but it can very well be countered.

There is another view that that's just hogwash and our experience with manufacturing, government policies and licensing tells us that CMTPL cannot setup such complex a manufacturing and quality infrastructure in a highly regulated industry in such a short turn around. The timelines will be stretched. It's not called rumour mongering, it's called a discussion.

What I have an issue with is drammentitekar or anyone else being condescending towards anyone who doesn't share their view. I really hope manufacturing starts soon and Glocks are available in March '21 but I'm seeing information that suggests otherwise, others are too.

Let's have everyone present their own facts and views in a respectful and open manner. Trying to choke an open discussion is not in favour of gun lovers or the spirit of this forum.
By asking to keep patience, I dont think I am choking anyone's opinion. Its a discussion forum for everyone and so for me too.
Those who dont believe on official declaration on official website and believe on other source news are free to do so.

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by lasershark » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:41 am

Thinking straight, these are my take on the things. Pls comment.

CMT seems to be more of a defence manufacturer than an arms manufacturer just for license holders.
  • My understanding is that they probably plan to use their excess or idle capacity towards NPBs.
  • This is evident from their marketing or rather 'lack of marketing' efforts for NPBs.
  • They have tied up two biggest arms manufacturers in the world, Glock and CZ. This is a feat not easily achievable by any and more so if they don't have the capacity.
  • They signed MOU with TN Government with their Chief Minister for further investment in the state and for more employment generation in the state. They are one of the 14 companies that did so bringing a total investment of over 10,000 Crore in that event.
  • They have added Naval Warfare Division to produce what seems to be submarines and other underwater vehicles for the Navy. This is heavy defence industry.
  • They have listed ammunition on their website for which details are unknown. So assuming it is only for government supplies.
These are my own take on things from publicly available sources. What seems to be is that they have committed or rather announced to rollout versions for NPBs from their 'defence' facility. So, quality and reliability are expected to be on par with the global standards that are supplied to our government forces.

What we do not know, or more of what is the lack of effective marketing efforts from them for NPBs makes us question their launch for NPB models. We are used to repeated announcements from other smaller manufacturers or purely non-defence and NPB manufacturers, of which we expect the same from a seemingly defence oriented manufacturer. Hence, the non belief or questioning of the NPB availability from CMT. Where I think it is not correct to compare apples to oranges.

I do not think they are going to pay attention to us and change their marketing or even more they are going to hold back on any information because of the perception that it could lead to rumours, one of the main reasons they cite for not declaring the dealers or prices on their website until availability.

I'm hopeful to add it to my license once it is in the market, until then any early announcement from them would ease my wavering mind.

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by casual shooter » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:41 am

I absolutely agree, Civil trade is minuscule business, and just a sugar on the cake, for us I think there are two type of enthusiasts on this page , one gun dealers who have heavily invested in their merchandise and for them the delay and the idea of declaring the private arms manufacturers as bogey is more of a survival marketing strategy or thinking and serves their business model, the other are simple licence holders who are excited on buying new and genuine weapon rather than refurbished antiques , so are more than welcoming the calls and advertisements of the private manufacturers, it is common sense that if glock 357 is available for 350000 than why will one shell out 14 lacs for a 357 whose antecedents are unknown.....so there is threat perception and joy, both emotions are clearly visible on the forum, what ever it is Maja aa raha hai...

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by Drameenkitekar » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:04 am

casual shooter wrote:I absolutely agree, Civil trade is minuscule business, and just a sugar on the cake, for us I think there are two type of enthusiasts on this page , one gun dealers who have heavily invested in their merchandise and for them the delay and the idea of declaring the private arms manufacturers as bogey is more of a survival marketing strategy or thinking and serves their business model, the other are simple licence holders who are excited on buying new and genuine weapon rather than refurbished antiques , so are more than welcoming the calls and advertisements of the private manufacturers, it is common sense that if glock 357 is available for 350000 than why will one shell out 14 lacs for a 357 whose antecedents are unknown.....so there is threat perception and joy, both emotions are clearly visible on the forum, what ever it is Maja aa raha hai...
Well said except 350000/-, expecting it to be at 50% of this.

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by Shooterlike » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:04 pm

aren't cmtpl n india now... which means glocks are going to be manufactured in india itself

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by casual shooter » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:17 pm

There will always be a legion of " doubting thomas, but the existence of god can not be denied.

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by partheus » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:12 pm

To play the devil's advocate, I am not entirely convinced the civilian arms market is all that paltry. The number of legal arm license holders in India is 33 lakh, and that figure is from 2016. Obviously, the number would have gone up in the past 4 years. Each person can possess 2 weapons, so, the total number of legally ownable firearms would be more than 66 lakhs.

Now, most of the govt tenders I have seen make requests usually in the tens of thousands, and sometimes a few lakhs at a time. Let's not forget that it's usually the lowest bidder that scores the deal, so, the vendor has to make do on higher volumes rather than per item markup.

IMHO, the civilian market in India is significantly bigger than given credit for. Granted not every last license holder is a potential sale, but, a good percentage of the total population can be expected to make a purchase, especially since most firearm owners here have had to buy antiquated rubbish at extraordinarily high prices. So, why wouldn't most of them buy, say, a brand new Glock at a fairly reasonable price, all things considered?

Also, the vendors can go for a better markup per sale in the civilian side of things than they could expect from a government tender too. I believe the reason why many people write off the Indian civilian firearms market as too small to matter is because of the number of weapons allowed per license while ignoring the full market potential.

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by casual shooter » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:14 pm

Those who have purchased these antiques for exuberant amounts what will they do of them, my friends who have paid hellotofamoney for their colts and smiths will not sell at throw away prices, in fact it will be like getting married to their irons, only who have IOF weapons can dispose them at a paltry amount, my friend who purchased a llama about 86 year old weapon , for 11 lacs will not sell it for les than 1.5 lacs the price of .380 clock or taurus...

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by sourabhsangale » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:21 pm

For people who have bought a old weapons at expensive price , they will have a loss . If one has to sale he has to sell with a heavy heart with low price if he wants to buy a brand new glock or tauras . There is no other option why would one buy a old weapons for minimum 5 lac if he is getting a brand new around 2 lacs with warranty.

Only people who have beretta or any other brand which is expensive can sell it but will have to suffer less loss as compared to other brands .

In this situation one can only give at throwaway price and finding a buyer will be little bit difficult but not impossible.

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by AgentDoubleS » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:47 pm

casual shooter wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:41 am
I absolutely agree, Civil trade is minuscule business, and just a sugar on the cake, for us I think there are two type of enthusiasts on this page , one gun dealers who have heavily invested in their merchandise and for them the delay and the idea of declaring the private arms manufacturers as bogey is more of a survival marketing strategy or thinking and serves their business model, the other are simple licence holders who are excited on buying new and genuine weapon rather than refurbished antiques , so are more than welcoming the calls and advertisements of the private manufacturers, it is common sense that if glock 357 is available for 350000 than why will one shell out 14 lacs for a 357 whose antecedents are unknown.....so there is threat perception and joy, both emotions are clearly visible on the forum, what ever it is Maja aa raha hai...
That's a flawed argument that that gun dealers do not benefit from more manufacturers coming and selling their wares. Better quality and availability of firearm promotes the entire industry - including retailers. Look at the west where an entire ecosystem of gunsmiths, retailers, trainers, shooting sports exist because of availability of quality firearms. To think that gun dealers would not see this opportunity is being naive.

And yet again - personal attacks at an arms dealer who is simply expressing his reservation to timelines (not eventual delivery) is crass and undignified.

Cheers,
SS

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by AgentDoubleS » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:50 pm

casual shooter wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:17 pm
There will always be a legion of " doubting thomas, but the existence of god can not be denied.
Of course it can be denied - unless irrefutable proof of its existence can be presented. And none exists.

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by sourabhsangale » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:59 pm

AgentDoubleS wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:47 pm
casual shooter wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:41 am
I absolutely agree, Civil trade is minuscule business, and just a sugar on the cake, for us I think there are two type of enthusiasts on this page , one gun dealers who have heavily invested in their merchandise and for them the delay and the idea of declaring the private arms manufacturers as bogey is more of a survival marketing strategy or thinking and serves their business model, the other are simple licence holders who are excited on buying new and genuine weapon rather than refurbished antiques , so are more than welcoming the calls and advertisements of the private manufacturers, it is common sense that if glock 357 is available for 350000 than why will one shell out 14 lacs for a 357 whose antecedents are unknown.....so there is threat perception and joy, both emotions are clearly visible on the forum, what ever it is Maja aa raha hai...
That's a flawed argument that that gun dealers do not benefit from more manufacturers coming and selling their wares. Better quality and availability of firearm promotes the entire industry - including retailers. Look at the west where an entire ecosystem of gunsmiths, retailers, trainers, shooting sports exist because of availability of quality firearms. To think that gun dealers would not see this opportunity is being naive.

And yet again - personal attacks at an arms dealer who is simply expressing his reservation to timelines (not eventual delivery) is crass and undignified.

Cheers,
SS
Rightly said arms dealers will surely benefit from it as it will increase their business.

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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by Vineet » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:59 pm

casual shooter wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:14 pm
Those who have purchased these antiques for exuberant amounts what will they do of them, my friends who have paid hellotofamoney for their colts and smiths will not sell at throw away prices, in fact it will be like getting married to their irons, only who have IOF weapons can dispose them at a paltry amount, my friend who purchased a llama about 86 year old weapon , for 11 lacs will not sell it for les than 1.5 lacs the price of .380 clock or taurus...
Those who can afford to purchase an expensive weapon can afford the loss also.

We buy a car for 20 lacs and after five years we sell it for 10 lacs. So the total loss in five years is 10 lacs and we are ok with it.

Then why do we cry if we suffer 5-7 lacs loss in weapons? Because we are not mentally prepared for it.

Secondly, I will not mind if my weapon which is priced for 7 lacs become zero and I get brand new glock for below 2 lacs.

The whole thing is people who don't own imported weapons now are enjoying the situation thinking current imported weapon holders will suffer huge loss. But as I have said those who can afford expensive weapons won't mind the loss if they get new Glock for below 2 lacs.
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Re: A new baby born... Made in India Glock?

Post by james » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:31 pm

I will not sell my existing pistol as I like it , value up or down is irrelevant because it’s not business .
However I will have additional endorsed and buy Glock also. It’s more of personal choice and requirement.
That’s my view and may differ from person to person.

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