WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by russianshooter3 » Thu May 21, 2020 5:22 pm

sourabhsangale wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:16 pm
Webley is delivery revolver from july . Smith and wesson are also planning to come i also heard it from dealer in bengal .

Bansons are going to take dealership of sheik pistol , so one can book online or from them and take delivery from them .
Sir if its be try...
India open civil gun market for private company since 2016,last 4 (four) understand ? 4 years not one serious global company has entered your local market!
the exception is perhaps the Kalashnikov concern, but its military contract to 1 model AK

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by riflemarksman » Thu May 21, 2020 6:17 pm

The problem is when these companies outsource their manufacturing to other countries like india and china the quality also goes down

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by russianshooter3 » Thu May 21, 2020 6:23 pm

riflemarksman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 6:17 pm
The problem is when these companies outsource their manufacturing to other countries like india and china the quality also goes down
yep quality down very quick

about China quality ok, but other country in this region have many many many questions about quality (n)

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by riflemarksman » Thu May 21, 2020 6:59 pm

Webley & scott has a plant in Turkey where webley Tomhawk air rifles are made and let me tell you not all weapons made in the usa are without defects you must have heard about Remington 700 model rifle trigger problem......the weapon used to fire on loading the round and many accidental deaths have occured for which Remington has paid in millions in lawsuits

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by partheus » Thu May 21, 2020 7:20 pm

dsingh wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:58 pm
partheus wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:16 am
dsingh wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:44 pm
I
That's interesting. Where did you hear that Smith and Wesson is coming to India?
U.S have signed MOU with USA for allowing arm manufacturing companies to set up their units in all categories including civillian arms in India. One noida based company file is pending before home department for manufaturing shotguns with German partnership which is consisdered best in world it is going to be cleared soon as Union goverment have signed MOU with Germany way back. Bushman inculdes colt shares also as colt was declared bnakrupt and it merged with bushman arm manufacturing company largest manufacturing company in world with its shares in Glock etc is main compititor of smith and wessons.If produts r not sold due to rigid arms act then companies will be forced to pull out but goverment have to change arms act with radical changes .
I believe you are referring to Syndicate Innovations. They are primarily into air guns for ISSF disciplines and plinking ware, but I did hear they were setting up a factory in UP to manufacture shotgun parts. If the MOU in question was the one that was signed during Trump's recent visit, then the sudden surge in interest will certainly make sense even though arms manufacturing has been permitted since 2016. Just out of curiosity, does Smith and Wesson even have any manufacturing facilities outside of US? I thought all their stuff was made in America...

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by russianshooter3 » Thu May 21, 2020 7:56 pm

riflemarksman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 6:59 pm
Webley & scott has a plant in Turkey where webley Tomhawk air rifles are made and let me tell you not all weapons made in the usa are without defects you must have heard about Remington 700 model rifle trigger problem......the weapon used to fire on loading the round and many accidental deaths have occured for which Remington has paid in millions in lawsuits
Sir we discuss in present indian weapons
35-40 % world shotguns making in turkey, turkey quality its long not interesting question
for your understanding:
if you contract weapons in Turkey in a small factory - wait for problems ,if it is a large famous manufacturer like ata arms, huglu and others for some models quality is better than holland&holland

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by russianshooter3 » Thu May 21, 2020 7:59 pm

partheus wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:20 pm
I believe you are referring to Syndicate Innovations. They are primarily into air guns for ISSF disciplines and plinking ware, but I did hear they were setting up a factory in UP to manufacture shotgun parts. If the MOU in question was the one that was signed during Trump's recent visit, then the sudden surge in interest will certainly make sense even though arms manufacturing has been permitted since 2016. Just out of curiosity, does Smith and Wesson even have any manufacturing facilities outside of US? I thought all their stuff was made in America...
S&W last 20 years contracting some details for civil weapons in china in norinco corp

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by partheus » Thu May 21, 2020 9:48 pm

I see, thanks for the info. So, even if S&W are indeed coming to India, it isn't necessary that they are planning on offering their products here, they could simply have some weapons parts made by a Indian contractor instead of Chinese. There are a number of companies that are moving out of China right now so, that would make sense. I do hope they try and offer their stuff here. It would be a huge boost to the local market.

As for the licensing horrors, I feel that once the products start appearing on shelves, more people will take interest that could build up a bigger conversation. The reason why our politicians and bureaucrats can get away with such insane laws is because no one's talking about it, so there's not enough counter-arguments to their narrative. More prospective buyers, more employment opportunities etc certainly has a chance of changing all this.

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by russianshooter3 » Thu May 21, 2020 10:23 pm

partheus wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:48 pm
I see, thanks for the info. So, even if S&W are indeed coming to India, it isn't necessary that they are planning on offering their products here, they could simply have some weapons parts made by a Indian contractor instead of Chinese. There are a number of companies that are moving out of China right now so, that would make sense. I do hope they try and offer their stuff here. It would be a huge boost to the local market.

As for the licensing horrors, I feel that once the products start appearing on shelves, more people will take interest that could build up a bigger conversation. The reason why our politicians and bureaucrats can get away with such insane laws is because no one's talking about it, so there's not enough counter-arguments to their narrative. More prospective buyers, more employment opportunities etc certainly has a chance of changing all this.
Sir its all about money......
basic manufacturing license in India its limit of weapon - 5000 psc
In all other country if you have manufacturing license its NO limit to production
If limit per citizen be like in Russia 22 barrel per license holder i think in 1 years start manufacturing all what you like - starting Glock Taurus CZ SW COLT Browning FN Kalashnikov concern Beretta HK Steyr SIG SAUER and many many other
In present I add offer
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=27737
I’m at least trying to change your arms market for the better

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by timmy » Fri May 22, 2020 5:25 am

I could not be surprised if the "captains of industry" do anything, no matter how illogical, but I observe:

Making pistols is not so high tech anymore, as the basic concepts have been identified for awhile: Some sort of polymer frame, a metallic slide and steel barrel, all of which could be made anywhere. India isn't the low cost labor market in the world; that would be countries like Vietnam and Sri Lanka. The political situation in Sri Lanka may not be optimal, but Vietnam already has experience in arms manufacture: the SMLE clones for Australia.

Chinese stuff is contracted with any number of manufacturers. When I was young, "Japanese junk" was a common term. But Japan soon showed a proficiency in optics, electronics, guns, automobiles, and many other sectors of Industry. China has also gone through this transformation. There are many things that China does a very good job at making. Often, if one acquires something poorly made in China, it is because the middleman (often from the USA or Europe) has fixed an expense that only allows poor or inept manufacture. The product, in many cases, could have been better if the middleman had allowed for a higher cost Chinese manufacturer to make the item.

As i said in a previous post, if the Philippines can make a serviceable revolver at an affordable cost (last night, Sportsman's Warehouse listed a Rock island/Armscor 38 Spl snubby revolver for $200) would all (or any) of the companies mentioned here be interested in outsourcing manufacture alone, at a price point at or lower than the Philippines without also having access to the local market? As I said, corporations cannot be depended on for logic, but I do wonder about the business case of guns "for export only" manufacture in India.

I am, in a way, somewhat sad about this. I wish that India offered a competent product in a line that interested me. For instance, the old Royal Enfield designs are updated and manufactured (but they are very expensive) and I would like to own one. Why can't a gun be made of similar quality and, better yet, at an affordable price? If a Bose can design sound systems and components that command world attention and respect, are not similarly gifted minds available to design firearms?

Well, the answer to this last question is something I learned years ago: the key to success in the corporate world is 20% having a good idea, and 80% BS. Who can talk a better advertising campaign? Who has greased the palms of which politician to buy the land, build the factory, and clear the way for going to work. The key to business is usually the ability to talk someone's money into one's own pocket, rather than a better idea or a superiorly made product, although having a superior product is often a big plus, as Sony or Toyota shows us.
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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by riflemarksman » Fri May 22, 2020 6:14 am

I want to make an important point that is......even if S&W
Glock or webley make their weapons and sell them in India still the prices would be very high due to high taxes and dealers adding their high profit margin. If you see the price of handguns in the USA you could buy one for Rs 25,000 ...........so there will be no price advantage in India and time will tell if the made in India webley is of the same quality like Webley made in the UK.
Last edited by riflemarksman on Fri May 22, 2020 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by winnie_the_pooh » Fri May 22, 2020 6:22 am

A 25k revolver will cost 50k after taxes. There is nothing magical about making guns. The reason why reliable firearms are not made in India is policy rather than ability or competence of Indian manufacturers.
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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by partheus » Fri May 22, 2020 10:13 am

Well said, Timmy. There are plenty of tales of kids in Munger making exact copies of imported firearms with nothing more than a lathe, a hammer and a file where I live. There was even one article where an undercover reporter saw one of these gunsmiths make a perfect copy of a pistol just handed to him in less than an hour. Even the police admits that the stuff coming out of there is becoming increasingly hard to distinguish from the imported ware. Several generations of gunsmiths are now fueling the illegal gun trade in India simply because they were abandoned by the govt. Consequently, India is now only behind the US in the total number of guns in civilian hands. So much for strict firearm control. Can we imagine what quality of firearms India will start producing right off the bat if these people were given a job at a modern gun factory?

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by riflemarksman » Fri May 22, 2020 11:11 am

No offence.....I wanted to ask you guys that even if you give the Munger guys all the machines and training can they build a hand made Holland and Holland double rifle of the same quality that is made in England ..........I doubt it

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Re: WEBLEY SCOTT SETS UP PLANT IN INDIA

Post by partheus » Fri May 22, 2020 11:47 am

riflemarksman wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:11 am
No offence.....I wanted to ask you guys that even if you give the Munger guys all the machines and training can they build a hand made Holland and Holland double rifle of the same quality that is made in England ..........I doubt it
Not withstanding the fact that they are involved in illegal trade, I find absolutely no reason to doubt that they can. These are guys who make guns from morning to night to make ends meet. I doubt anyone in the developed world will have that kind of work ethic. With modern tools and management, I can only wonder what they could accomplish. Also, all we can do is wonder as we'll only find out how good they are when they are put to the test.

No doubt there will be lemons in the batch every now and then, that's just part of the process. But, like all productivity eco-systems, there will be those among them whose ware will be highly vaunted (albeit at a higher price), those who make just passable products and those whose stuff you'd rather avoid.

Besides, modern gunsmithing is more CNC machined than hand made these days. AFAIK gunsmiths are mostly responsible for fit, finish and QC.

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