7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

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7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by asifalikhanasif » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:12 pm

Good news for all
something new is coming for everyone.
7.62 mm / .30 Caliber
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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by shikharmtr1985 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:58 pm

What will be the cost? How it will be made available? Are you working on resolver too?

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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by lungphou » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:05 pm

What about magazines?

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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by Vineet » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:43 pm

asifalikhanasif wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:12 pm
Good news for all
something new is coming for everyone.
7.62 mm / .30 Caliber
In 2020, these people are copying and manufacturing 1930's design. This shows their knowledge about firearms.
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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by sourabhsangale » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:51 pm

Design is old . But still good news as compared to IOF and other old imported stuff .

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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by casual shooter » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:04 pm

7.62 pistols are from eastern block ?...does any nato country make them

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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by Shivaji.Dasgupta » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:57 pm

30 cal /7.62 was preferred in eastern block mainly and then it was spread in other areas. Some NATO country of course make them but not in bulk.
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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by mundaire » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:44 pm

Copy of the Tokarev? That too, only design/ plans and no working prototype?
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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by lasershark » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:52 am

Why 7.62 in pistol? No one even makes it anymore.

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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by lasershark » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:54 am

mundaire wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:44 pm
Copy of the Tokarev? That too, only design/ plans and no working prototype?
Correct, seems to be a good start with a very long way to go. (y)

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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by james » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:07 am

Copying also needs skills. We have seen copy of Browning hi power. Mosseberg 500 pump action.
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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by timmy » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:55 am

casual shooter: Yes, this looks like a TT33 Tokarev copy. Designed and made in the Soviet Union beginning in the 30s, the design was shared with some Warsaw Pact nations (including Poland and Romania), Yugoslavia, and China. The design is very tough and the cartridge, 7.62x25, is as powerful as the 9mm Lugar cartridge. Many European ammo makers load for it, including PPU, Fiochi, sand Sellier and Ballot. Peerhaps some of the Russian ammo makers, like Wolf, also load for this, but I have not checked. The Sellier and Ballot ammo is supposed to be particularly hot. I have some of this ammunition, but I have not tried shooting it, as I'm still working on a batch of Romanian surplus that I bought awhile back.

This pistol is an OK weapon, but not the best for concealed carry and self-protection. Thankfully, the picture shows that this maker hasn't decided to incorporate a safety, as other nations have required for importation. The safety is totally useless, as it is only a hammer block and relies upon the sear egagement with the trigger to keep you safe. I don't know about you, but I prefer not to trust any of my parts and bits to a very thin surface on the sear and a very small ledge on the hammer (parts 24 and 10 in the first attached picture). If dropped when cocked, either or both of these could break.

If the manufacturer incorporated an inertia firing pin, rather than the positive firing pin this design uses, it might be safer to carry the weapon with the hammer down on a live round. All of the versions available today DO NOT allow this! (Please note that neither IFG nor I am responsible for some nitwit trying to do so!)

The half-cock on the hammer is deep, but still relies on the integrity of the heat treatment of the hammer, sear, and the strength of their pins to protect you. I've just had my firing assembly (hammer, sear, springs, and pins) apart recently, and those parts look mighty small for such a heavy weapon.

These pistols were designed to provide the Soviet soldier and officer with a side arm. they were aimed at allowing an illiterate peasant to operate such a weapon in primitive battlefield conditions, and to be as inexpensive as possible. Note that Stalin insisted on the 1945 SKS rifle having an integral, rather than detachable magazine because he considered the average Soviet soldier to stupid and careless to manage a detachable one -- this is the sort of design constraint made on this weapon. (Of course, the AK came out a little later with a detachable magazine!)

The positive firing pin was considered able to make every cartridge go BANG! when the hammer was dropped, including ammunition made under severe wartime conditions.

There are other design attributes that could be pointed out, but pistol was more than adequate for the task for which it was intended. It is heavy for its size, because no time or effort was expended in machining the parts to onlly be as heavy as they need to be. For instance, unlike the much more elegant US 1911 45 Auto, the barrel's locking lugs go all the way around the barrel, without milling off the ~270* degrees that do nothing to lock the action. Handguns, in the scheme of war, account for very little of the enemy casualties, and the Soviets, perhaps rightly, considered that anything more than the basic effort to provide a pistol was unnecessary.

However, it is indeed sad that something more modern cannot be made available. Granted, a 1911 or Browning High Power can still survive in this day and age as an effective carry weapon, because of the unique excellence of its design. The TT33, while a reasonably effective weapon for its time, does not rise to that level, however.

One attribute that is nice about the TT33 is that it is very slim and slender. It is almost as small as a Colt Pocket Pistol, but its 7.62x25 (or 9mm in some versions) cartridge is much more powerful than the Colt's 380 Auto round.

@james: While copying does need skills, the skills in question are those of a Khyber Pass fellow working in primitive conditions. Consider that Ruger's Security 9 is a polymer framed 9mm, fully safe and serviceable and light in weight, and it is selling on sale in the USA now at $250. I can see little reason why a modern, capable weapon like this isn't available in India for around the same price, and that it isn't doesn't seem like a very reasonable or defensible situation to me.

The Browning High Power is a little different of a situation, for as I said, it is an exceptional design and still holds its own with modern pistols for personal carry, despite the fact that it's about as old as the TT33.
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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by casual shooter » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:02 am

timmy wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:55 am
casual shooter: Yes, this looks like a TT33 Tokarev copy. Designed and made in the Soviet Union beginning in the 30s, the design was shared with some Warsaw Pact nations (including Poland and Romania), Yugoslavia, and China. The design is very tough and the cartridge, 7.62x25, is as powerful as the 9mm Lugar cartridge. Many European ammo makers load for it, including PPU, Fiochi, sand Sellier and Ballot. Peerhaps some of the Russian ammo makers, like Wolf, also load for this, but I have not checked. The Sellier and Ballot ammo is supposed to be particularly hot. I have some of this ammunition, but I have not tried shooting it, as I'm still working on a batch of Romanian surplus that I bought awhile back.

This pistol is an OK weapon, but not the best for concealed carry and self-protection. Thankfully, the picture shows that this maker hasn't decided to incorporate a safety, as other nations have required for importation. The safety is totally useless, as it is only a hammer block and relies upon the sear egagement with the trigger to keep you safe. I don't know about you, but I prefer not to trust any of my parts and bits to a very thin surface on the sear and a very small ledge on the hammer (parts 24 and 10 in the first attached picture). If dropped when cocked, either or both of these could break.

If the manufacturer incorporated an inertia firing pin, rather than the positive firing pin this design uses, it might be safer to carry the weapon with the hammer down on a live round. All of the versions available today DO NOT allow this! (Please note that neither IFG nor I am responsible for some nitwit trying to do so!)

The half-cock on the hammer is deep, but still relies on the integrity of the heat treatment of the hammer, sear, and the strength of their pins to protect you. I've just had my firing assembly (hammer, sear, springs, and pins) apart recently, and those parts look mighty small for such a heavy weapon.

These pistols were designed to provide the Soviet soldier and officer with a side arm. they were aimed at allowing an illiterate peasant to operate such a weapon in primitive battlefield conditions, and to be as inexpensive as possible. Note that Stalin insisted on the 1945 SKS rifle having an integral, rather than detachable magazine because he considered the average Soviet soldier to stupid and careless to manage a detachable one -- this is the sort of design constraint made on this weapon. (Of course, the AK came out a little later with a detachable magazine!)

The positive firing pin was considered able to make every cartridge go BANG! when the hammer was dropped, including ammunition made under severe wartime conditions.

There are other design attributes that could be pointed out, but pistol was more than adequate for the task for which it was intended. It is heavy for its size, because no time or effort was expended in machining the parts to onlly be as heavy as they need to be. For instance, unlike the much more elegant US 1911 45 Auto, the barrel's locking lugs go all the way around the barrel, without milling off the ~270* degrees that do nothing to lock the action. Handguns, in the scheme of war, account for very little of the enemy casualties, and the Soviets, perhaps rightly, considered that anything more than the basic effort to provide a pistol was unnecessary.

However, it is indeed sad that something more modern cannot be made available. Granted, a 1911 or Browning High Power can still survive in this day and age as an effective carry weapon, because of the unique excellence of its design. The TT33, while a reasonably effective weapon for its time, does not rise to that level, however.

One attribute that is nice about the TT33 is that it is very slim and slender. It is almost as small as a Colt Pocket Pistol, but its 7.62x25 (or 9mm in some versions) cartridge is much more powerful than the Colt's 380 Auto round.

@james: While copying does need skills, the skills in question are those of a Khyber Pass fellow working in primitive conditions. Consider that Ruger's Security 9 is a polymer framed 9mm, fully safe and serviceable and light in weight, and it is selling on sale in the USA now at $250. I can see little reason why a modern, capable weapon like this isn't available in India for around the same price, and that it isn't doesn't seem like a very reasonable or defensible situation to me.

The Browning High Power is a little different of a situation, for as I said, it is an exceptional design and still holds its own with modern pistols for personal carry, despite the fact that it's about as old as the TT33.
wonderful information Timmy,
I think the compulsion of "trying' to make the '30 pistol' in India is the cost it demands in the market, other wise the ones which are have sen with my Fuji officer fiends is a crude weapon and darra made but captured by the army in Kashmir etc, few of them are original Chinese copies rarely soviet. the people who got the licence begging their pardon I wish to state that they are only going for old established vintage models like the 'bebli ascot' only Glock or taurus if they come will provide contemporary quality weapons, god knows why is no one thinking of collaborating with makarov , etc, design of weapons are available in dime a dozen on the net in the copy right sections of US copyright sites.
thanks for this wonderful information.....
regards

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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by Vineet » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:03 pm

Timmy, what about safety on Zastava pistol that has safety on slide.
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Re: 7.62 mm Pistol, Malhotra Defence, Meerut

Post by pistolero » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:32 pm

Well im not going into the 1930 vs 2020 debate. The Hi Power and 1911 hold their own against current EDC firearms.

Having said that I dont think the TT has what it takes in terms of design, to stand up to the new firearms which will be launched in the next few years. Including the modern variants of the 1911.

Being equal or better than a Darra firearm, is not something, in my opinion would be or should be, the goal of any Indian Firearm owner.

There are better options.

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