This is hardly a groudbreaking observation. Everything made by mankind is known to fail at one time or another.
You are doubling down on an assertion for which you have provided no facts or data. Merely stating that something is so doesn't make it so.
I'm sure there are reasons why these firms don't use a sintering process. You don't cite those reasons, but imply that you know the reason without saying it. Do you have evidence why they don't use the sintering process that you know?
Just because these firms don't use a sintering process proves nothing about the reliability of sintered products.
Again, I mentioned connecting rods in automotive engines using the sintering process successfully. Are you now going to assert that automotive connecting rods undergo less stress than the hammer, trigger, and bolt of a revolver? I doubt that you would do so, because such an argument is absurd, even to the casual observer. Still, you have not responded to a demonstrated case in which sintered components are quite reliable.
Nobody is debating the point that the process has to be done correctly. Thus, this line of argument is an irrelevant red herring.pistolero wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:56 pmIn the MIM process, the debinding steps and sintering steps are critical to making sure the part has the correct hardness. If either of those steps aren’t done correctly, you can get a part that’s too soft, such many of the Kimber MIM sears, or a part that’s too hard and thus brittle. Those steps can also be performed correctly and still result in a part that’s too soft if your initial formula wasn’t quite right. Quality Control is a big big concern.
You said "Sintered parts are not reliable and we can go into the mechanics of that." Now you are saying that the sintered part has to be made correctly. This is not the same thing and your argument isn't consistent.
I don't believe in Santa Claus either, but I also don't believe in people who make claims without the support of facts and data. We aren't debating the price point of Armscor products in the market. We are debating the reliability of their products, specifically the sintered parts in their products.pistolero wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:56 pmNow if you want to justify that a bargain basement manufacturer is indeed going through the process of strict quality control, and has got it right, where most in the world have not, that is on you. I dont believe in Santa Claus, but I have nothing against people who do.
I have made no claim that their products are reliable or unreliable. You have claimed that they are unreliable, but rather than providing facts and data to support your conclusion, you simply say "Sintered parts are not reliable and we can go into the mechanics of that.'
Your going into the "mechanics of that" consisted of a brief description of how a sintered part has to be processed to make it right. So, does Armscor get it right? You assert that they cannot, because they market at a low price point, but you provide no evidence that Armscor doesn't perform the sintering process correctly, again with no facts and data. It must be so, because that's your logic.
This reminds me of people who thought heavier objects fell faster than light objects, just because it seemed reasonable. Nobody actually tested the issue to see if it was actually true.
You say that you don't believe in Santa Claus, but here, we're concerned with what you do believe, and this amounts to an ever increasing number of unsupported claims.
No, I said that "The idea that the market determines the best product has been proven false so many times that I'm surprised that it's still advanced."
This is not the same thing. Your attempt to put words in my mouth and argue against that only proves the bankruptcy of your assertions -- certainly this must be clear to you?!
And so you have. Perhaps you will continue to do so.pistolero wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:56 pmyou had a certain share of market and now your market is dwindling, because instead of moving forward you are standing still, no up gradation, no change in process! You are not listening to customer feedback! So others have come and yes kicked your butt, and have taken your market share, because of their product quality, they had no History in the American market, but by providing consistent quality they have prevailed. Now we can romanticize this with what a great product! Should have continued to succeed!! Well truth of the matter is, they had market share till there was no choice. Once companies started listening to their customers, the ones not listening, lost market share. So there is the WOULD. The company refuses to change, so now instead of trying to find their way in their primary market they are coming to India, and that too with a company which has ZERO manufacturing experience, and we are expecting Manna to drop from heaven!! Again if they were so great, would their own security forces not prefer it?? and in India, where we have no licenses, and scant chances of success why even bother? The only reason is they have no choice! they have to bolster numbers, and I am sure they see a market with a Billion people wanting cheap guns
We can keep going on and on....
Your unsupported emotional rants against a product that sells at a low price point and uses modern manufacturing methods has been totally unaccompanied by any facts and data, and has failed to address any objections made to your statements. Rather, you address statements that you invent and assign to others. This is hardly a basis for a logical discussion.
I do appreciate your permission to buy what I want.pistolero wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:56 pmYou Sir are free to buy what you want, but presenting Armscor, as a success or a quality product is misrepresentation, they are "cheap junk" good for markets where you can buy a cheap gun and work on it as a hobby, not in India, where you can only have 2 guns, and you have put your life in the hands of a product which is far from perfect.
But again, we are all free to make our own mistakes. You like it, you should buy it. I will NOT buy it.
However, I do consider your unfounded negative categorizations against Armscor's products as unwarranted and too undignified for this board.