Indians For Guns

Thread moved to the "rifles" section...

Jonah, thanks for sharing your first hand experience with INSAS

Cheers!
Abhijeet

so hot here

thanks for that depth of knwoledge

Greeting to the Gents of the forum,
have read briefly and wish to add my limited understanding, I would like to point out that i have used SLR, COLT AR 15,SA80 and M16, so I can say that I know a little about the above said. I will not go into the technical details.

we have to understand the reason and the requirement of a rifle. for instance in modern day battle most targets are engaged at 300 m. thus most rifle must be able to take down a enemy at that range.

SLR does go further then 300m, 600 m is not a problem with it. so lets try to find out what purpose the govt had in mind in regards to the "crap rifle". OK i have no idea.

the SLR has been used by the Brits from middle east to central America. Also in east Asia, during the bourno bashing.

the SLR is highly respected piece of kit, simple, strong and packs a wicked punch if you get hit by it either end, i know as i have be rifle butted few times. i have never came across any problems in the field, nor heard of any problems that may cause harm to the user. if the pipe is not pointed at oneself. if we look at the number of countries used or using the rifle SLR, should tell us something.

SA80 or rifle 5.56 Enfield, when it came out it was crap. i know i have used it, i had problems with it in sandy areas. cleaning it was nightmare as had many parts and small tiny areas to clean,i even heard of a story that the SAS guy who tested it took a digger and buried it. SA 80 is now the main battle weapon of the Brit forces.

The Yankee shooting stick well less said the better, but the newer ones tend to be little better.

As for the debate about the rifle on the forum, (INSAS) never used it, don't know who has, if it is meant for the urban area, and is auto, lets think about the civilian casualties? is it the best in the world? How can we say that if only one nation uses it? what track record is there? we can not say its the best as it only been out short while.

And lets take a look at the national pride and promotions if a good report is not given, does this happen here in India???

Parting shot.

Someone once said that the Israeli air force was the best in the world, then a sergeant asked the general, "who have the Israeli air force fought, apart from ragheads and bombing refuges camps?" no answer was given to that question.

nagarifle

Finally I have broadband and am able to post some videos

[photobucketvideo]http://static.photobucket.com/player.sw ... NSAS-1.flv[/photobucketvideo]

[photobucketvideo]http://static.photobucket.com/player.sw ... s/AK-1.flv[/photobucketvideo]

[photobucketvideo]http://static.photobucket.com/player.sw ... MAUTO2.flv[/photobucketvideo]

[photobucketvideo]http://static.photobucket.com/player.sw ... MMAUTO.flv[/photobucketvideo]

glad that u got ur bradband mine is dead slow. almost dead in downloads. so unable to watch the movie. but the shoot look cool

will try someother time

Hello
SLR was discarded for the following reasons.
It was a semi auto and could not compete with the full auto rifles like AK's etc.
It was too powerful weapon for the battle field and a bit unwieldy more useful for special operations such as sniping etc. I disagree with the statement that battles are fought at 300 m, more correctly it is 75 m and hence the need for a lighter weapon with a lighter load.
Thru out the world armies are migrating to the 5.56 mm round viz a viz the 7.62 and other calibers.
All said and done the 7.62 SLR is a better weapon than INSAS per se.
Regs
sudhaiob

World over,armies have already migrated to 5.56mm.Some have realized that this is not necessarily the best caliber for the intended purpose and are now looking for something better.

I have this feeling that by the time the Indian army standardizes on the 5.56mm the world would have moved on to something else.The DRDO would then spend 20 years trying to 'develop' a rifle for this caliber and then the IOFB would mess up the rifle by shoddy manufacturing.

Why could the Indian army not go with the 7.62X39?Love this round

insas is a technically sound weapon on the drawing board, as it is based on the AK platform, in kargil the soldiers had a problem with the ammunition feeding syatem and the cracking of plastic magazines due to extreme cold weather , so officers and soldiers mostly carried the AK for the assults, i have seen the product the finishing is absolutely lousy,
the CQB doctrine requires the enemy to be engaged at a distance of 75 -300 meters and the idea is not to kill but to maim and injure as an injured soldier becomes a laibility on the unit right from evacuation logistics to post war rehabilitaion benefits. the 5.56 is a ideal cartridge for the same.
the AK is a un balanced weapon with the front end heavy but effective and an ideal companion to be carried in a battlefeild.

Steel cases are not necessarily cheaper to produce, but iron ore is found in many more places in the world than copper, and is also much more plentiful. In wartime many countries would have trouble getting adquate copper supplies. Tooling for steel cases wears out much more quickly, though. Russian cases are nowadays laquered, or plated for sporting ammo; Chinese is usually copper-plated, but the newer stuff seems laquered. Germany started making steel case in WWI, when copper became scarce. Laquered with a hard wax coating. At the beginning of WWII aluminum alloy cases were developed, but though the troops responded positively, all aluminum available was then ear-marked for airplane production, and it was back to steel cases for small arms. The biggest problem in development was in the selection and heat treatment of the material to provide functioning in both manually operated and automatic arms, as elasticity requirements differ slightly. Too soft, cases stick in bolt guns; too hard and brittle, they tear in automatics. With all automatic arms nowadays, that has become simpler. I remember getting some Belgian alu-cased 12 gauge shells in the 50's that stuck in the chambers like being superglued. Had to take the gun apart and pound them out with a ramrod. To add insult to insury, that was the morning the ducks were really flying while I was headed with my barrels in hand to a blind with a hunter with a muzzle loader. Wasn't too happy about that, but gracious enough to let me use his ram rod. Cheers

i think we are beating the here. all said and done.

I have some old FN .32ACP ammo.They go off with a louder bang than anything that I have fired so far,when they do go off.The bullets are nickel coated.

I have a few friends in CISF but non of them are happy with INSAS. May be some years later you will find SPO(s)/and VDC members armed with INSAS .
BTW, a very informatic discussion, thank you guys

regards,
tingriman

is that a bren lmg? i thought those guns were retired. The insas are cool but they are copies of ak47 and slr....but still they fire brilliantly..ive fired the insas lmg, thing has a hell lot of a recoil. It was a brut to INSAS repo when may cases of cracking the synthetic plastic magazines came up, they particular gun was called back and now a better magazine is provided..the problem had come up in cold battle zones.

recoil so bad on a 223?