Indians For Guns

45-70 Govt. ballistics in a handy compact package.
Last weekend, Oleg came up to Minnesota and he shot some photos. After spending the morning at my gun club, we went over to my carry permit instructor, Rick Bruel's house and I got a chance to shoot his AR in .458 SOCOM. The recoil approximates shooting 20 gauge bird shot in a pump gun; which is quite a bit mellower than shooting say, a lever action gun in 45-70. That's a big chunk of lead flying out of the barrel!


Photo by Oleg. Click on the image in his blog to see the full size image.

Oleg's Blog


image from wikipedia

A you tube video posted by a company that makes .458 SOCOM uppers.
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Wow! check that out! could be useful as a manstopper in close combat situations..

Nice really amusing very cool

XL, I have fired the M1895 Marlin in .45-70 with the 400 gr Speer sitting on top of 53gr of 3031. Boom! It is hardly a very pleasant thing to shoot!

Looking at the specs for this .458 SOCOM round, it strikes me as similar to other reduced capacity cases, such as .30-'06 vs .308, in that equivalent ballistics are obtainable with the smaller case in the lighter bullet weights. However, I could see this round as being a very interesting brush cartridge for deer and hogs.

Moreover, ANYTHING would be more comfortable to shoot than a light weight lever action with a crescent buttplate! The ergonomics of the AR would surely be a much more pleasant choice than the Marlin! By the tone of your comments, you are speaking from experience (or, should I say, hard-won experience!).

This looks like a dandy toy. I am wondering how such a rig would work with cast bullets? Do you think that the gas port might be subject to leading up?

I very much would like to see a lot more offerings like this available at reasonable prices for hunters. I feel that this would be an excellent way to counteract the unfounded and foolish notion that true and acceptable hunting rifles should look like those of 100 years ago. Perhaps such misguided folks who think this way would feel more comfortable driving a Model T on the interstate? Everyone else is happy to avail themselves of modern research and technology in their pursuits; I see no reason why hunters should be judged morally for expecting the same benefits.

Thanks for posting. Looks like a fun toy!

Hunting with the round
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Tim,
I am so glad to hear you say that. You're a man after my own heart. Unlike you there are many self professed gun experts out there who deride the AR platform as a viable hunting wepon. To me a gun is a gun is a gun. What it looks like is immaterial. I think Martini Henry rifles are great looking, I lust for an FN FAL, I think Walker Colt's are gorgeous and I think the AR platform is a very ergonomic and versatile platform.

Talking about the .458 SOCOM in particular, it is designed to provide a lot of stopping power at close range. As can be seen from the video, even sand filled concrete blocks are not an obstacle for long. From a military standpoint, since many of the loads available are subsonic, use of a suppressor becomes easy. The advantage of the caliber is that it can use the large number of 45-70 Govt bullets available on the market. Hunting and other bullets upto 500 grains are available from SBR in expanding and solid versions. A 500 or 600 grain bullet travelling at 1000 ft/sec put out a lot of wallop. Keep in mind that this is a short range gun (150 yds or so). The looping trajectory of the heavy subsonic bullet would require a great deal of holdover after that. The AR platform is not real heavy. This particular example made by Rock River Arms is 7.6 lbs sans scope and mounts. The buffer spring does help in spreading out the recoil over a period of time, making it feel less sharp than it is. I believe this particular gun came with three different springs.

I don't know about cast bullets. You have a point that lead shavings might affect the gas system. I seems that all the bullets offered by SBR are jacketed. i wonder if just plating or copper washing the lead bullets would remedy the problem. That would be a lot cheaper than purchasing jacketed bullets.

-- Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:33 pm --

shadow wrote:Dear Oleg,


Thanks for sharing.

xl, could you pls share details on both the guns in the pictures?

Cheers,
Rup

Rup,
You can see more info about this particular firearm above.
The beauty of the AR platform is it modularity. As you can see from the video when the soldier brings the .458 SOCOM upper out of his backpack and puts it on his lower assembly, it's a quick switch between calibers.

You buy the Lower Receiver (this is the serial numbered part of the gun). Then you pick out the furniture, the barreled Upper Receiver in the caliber of your choice, and the sights. Switch magazines and you're ready to go.

This is the Lower Receiver:


Buttstocks are available in a number of styles:


Add your "upper" in whatever caliber, barrel length, etc.


pick your iron sights, scope mounts, etc.:


You can build and customize your rifle as there are literally thousands of accessories and parts available from different manufacturers. Switching "uppers" takes seconds. You can have one lower receiver and uppers in many different calibers (from .22 LR and up) if you so desire. Aftermarket trigger assemblies, handguards, picatinny rails, you name it, are available.

XL: This is all very cool! I very much like the cartridge, especially sticking with the .458" bullet size -- lots of bullets available!

Winnie: The youtube video was very helpful, thank you! Especially the credits at the end to this rifle shop:

http://teppojutsu.com/

These folks are about a 3½ hour or so drive from me, and they have lots of toys, including some research on the 7.62x25 Tok cartridge -- another favorite of mine.

I need to get to bed for tomorrow, but I would like to start another thread with my idea on this business of hunting rifles and how they look, XL. You might find these thoughts amusing.

happy for you guys,just enjoyed watching the video.....................keep posting more videos.

Timmy, I just saw this on teppojutsu.com

On the right is a custom built quick-detachable ladder sight (1873 tang sight for a .45-70) that uses the standard front sight. Due to the similar ballistics as the .45-70, this customer can use that sight set at 700 yards to engage his 2'x2' gong at 720 yards.

And who said this was a short range cartridge?

WOOOOWWWW, Thats the weapon, with all those customization available and already popular AR platform, it will be a toy to play with

I hope the DRDO ppl are seeing this. When i look at these weapons and development, i invariably feel as if we are in stone in india