.450 No.1 Express

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Grumpy
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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by Grumpy » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:53 pm

Which it does.
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Vikram
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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by Vikram » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:26 pm

Grumpy wrote:Yes, we know that Vikram but the problem was whether the .500/.450 NE is the same as the .500/.450 No 1 and I`ve just found that it isn`t. There were 19 different .500/.450 cartridges, all of which originated from black powder cartridges. There were at least three .500/.450 No 1s . Hopefully this link will take you to the appropriate page :
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bjhy ... 01&f=false

Thanks for the link, Grumpy. Will check it out.

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shooter50
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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by shooter50 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:42 pm

I have a double barrel hammerless rifle in this calibre by Fraser of Edinburgh. It was probably made in the twentieth rather than the nineteenth century.
I am sure thats a 450 BP express. if you post the proof marks I could be sure. Most are British guild guns sent to India and Africa, they were much cheaper than their Nitro Express counterparts. Many of these hammerless DBs came out in the cordite era, and therefore were proofed for reduced cordite loads. you could have both BP and Nitro markings. Just a collectors item now.Forget about the cartridges in this country.
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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by Grumpy » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:51 pm

British guild guns ?
Make a man a fire and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
( Terry Pratchett )

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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by Grumpy » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:59 pm

There was certainly a .500/.450 No1 Express Nitro - Bonhams had a Greener double in the calibre in one of their 2012 sales and the makers volunteered that the rifle was proofed for 50 gr cordite with a 310 gr bullet which is very much a nitro-for-black load - note the light for calibre bullet : http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19797/lot/69/
Make a man a fire and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
( Terry Pratchett )

Grumpy
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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by Grumpy » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:01 am

No such thing as a British guild gun by the way because there never were any British guilds.
Make a man a fire and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
( Terry Pratchett )

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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by miroflex » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:09 am

Grumpy wrote:Yes, we know that Vikram but the problem was whether the .500/.450 NE is the same as the .500/.450 No 1 and I`ve just found that it isn`t. There were 19 different .500/.450 cartridges, all of which originated from black powder cartridges. There were at least three .500/.450 No 1s . Hopefully this link will take you to the appropriate page :
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bjhy ... 01&f=false
You're right Grumpy. I'm looking for cartridges that may be lying with dealers in India. One occasionally comes across real finds in such a search. I was looking for .280 rimless cartridges for a Ross rifle for my sister and found a lot of rimmed cartridges in that calibre.
"To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived." Sherlock Holmes in "The Adventure Of The Copper Beeches" by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by Grumpy » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:43 pm

Yes ..... but you can`t intermix. The fact that the bore diameter is the same does NOT mean that cartridges are interchangeable. The 30/30, 30-06, .308 Win, .300 Win Mag and .300 Weatherby Mag are all .308 calibre but they are definitely NOT interchangeable. The variation between the case sizes and powder charge in the various .500/.450 cartridges is easily as extreme ..... more so in fact.
Make a man a fire and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
( Terry Pratchett )

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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by miroflex » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:04 pm

I know. That's why I had to pass them up. I only mentioned it to show that this vintage cartridge, once favoured by King George V and Edward, Prince of Wales, later King Edward VIII, is still floating around. One never knows what will come to light in a dealer's stock of goods.

As an aside, I once found a Martini Henry rifle complete with .577/450 cartridges with a dealer on Halsey Road, Kanpur.
"To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived." Sherlock Holmes in "The Adventure Of The Copper Beeches" by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by Grumpy » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:24 pm

It`s strange how .577/.450 Martini Henry cartridges hang around - I once found a large biscuit tin almost full of early rolled brass foil .577/.450 M-H cartridges at an antiques dealers. Weighed several kilos and many of the old foil cases had collapsed with powder spread throughout the tin. I had to advise him that he really needed to inform the licencing agency .... which he poo-pooed so I did it for him !
Make a man a fire and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
( Terry Pratchett )

hemendrasingh
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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by hemendrasingh » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:53 pm

Hello

I own a .450/500 No. 1 Express By George Gibbs, Bristol. It is a black powder cartridge. It is a family heirloom that I possess. Though the ammo is not available now but would anyone have any knowledge about old ammo available?

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Re: .450 No.1 Express

Post by miroflex » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:37 am

Here is a double rifle by Daniel Fraser recently sold in the USA by auction in pristine condition, almost as it would have been at the time it left the maker's premises. Mine is in working condition but nowhere near as perfect.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns- ... 45282#lg-1
"To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived." Sherlock Holmes in "The Adventure Of The Copper Beeches" by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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