Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

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Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by KDS991213 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:47 pm

Do self loading rifles that require you to manually cock the hammer count as semi auto rifle? And what about double action only self loading rifles.

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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by Vineet » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:24 pm

Point numbers 48 and 49 of Arms Rules 2016 says

(48) “self-loading” means semi-automatic;

(49) “semi-automatic” means a small arm or light weapon that, after each discharge, automatically performs all of the steps necessary to prepare the weapon to fire again, but that requires a separate depression of the trigger to fire each round of ammunition.


My interpretation is that double action only self loading rifles will definitely be counted as semi auto. Manually cocking the hammer should not be counted as semi auto but it also depends on how the officer incharge interprets the law.
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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by KDS991213 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:14 am

Vineet wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:24 pm
Point numbers 48 and 49 of Arms Rules 2016 says

(48) “self-loading” means semi-automatic;

(49) “semi-automatic” means a small arm or light weapon that, after each discharge, automatically performs all of the steps necessary to prepare the weapon to fire again, but that requires a separate depression of the trigger to fire each round of ammunition.


My interpretation is that double action only self loading rifles will definitely be counted as semi auto. Manually cocking the hammer should not be counted as semi auto but it also depends on how the officer incharge interprets the law.
But technically you do have to manually cock the hammer on a double action.

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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by Vineet » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:49 pm

KDS991213 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:14 am
But technically you do have to manually cock the hammer on a double action.
In a double action, hammer can be cocked by pressing the trigger and that will not be counted as 'manually cocking the hammer'. 'Double Action' will be counted as semi auto.
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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by KDS991213 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:45 pm

Vineet wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:49 pm
KDS991213 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:14 am
But technically you do have to manually cock the hammer on a double action.
In a double action, hammer can be cocked by pressing the trigger and that will not be counted as 'manually cocking the hammer'. 'Double Action' will be counted as semi auto.
I get it but the rifle is not performing ALL the ACTIONS needed to fire again. The firing mechanism still needs to be cocked. Although we are using the trigger to cock the firing mechanism.

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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by Vikram » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:12 pm

KDS991213 wrote:
I get it but the rifle is not performing ALL the ACTIONS needed to fire again. The firing mechanism still needs to be cocked. Although we are using the trigger to cock the firing mechanism.
It ultimately boils down to how the licensing authority interprets/understands the concept.
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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by eljefe » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:22 pm

I’m a little lost here. I’ve never heard of a single action or double action semi auto rifles. Only revolvers.
Do you mean the M1 Garands with the welded off gas block? Charging handle has to be pulled back after firing to eject the empty and load a fresh round.
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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by Vineet » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:43 pm

KDS991213 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:45 pm
I get it but the rifle is not performing ALL the ACTIONS needed to fire again. The firing mechanism still needs to be cocked. Although we are using the trigger to cock the firing mechanism.
When with each pressing of trigger, the weapon goes off, irrespective of what is happening in mechanism, it is counted as semi auto.

That is the law, whether we like it or not.
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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by marksman » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:21 pm

How ever I'd like to see and find out which double action Rifle you all are talking about. Would love to see the detailed picture as well.

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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by Vineet » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:48 pm

marksman wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:21 pm
How ever I'd like to see and find out which double action Rifle you all are talking about. Would love to see the detailed picture as well.

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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by KDS991213 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:12 pm

eljefe wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:22 pm
I’m a little lost here. I’ve never heard of a single action or double action semi auto rifles. Only revolvers.
Do you mean the M1 Garands with the welded off gas block? Charging handle has to be pulled back after firing to eject the empty and load a fresh round.
I don't exactly remember but there were some locations which use the similar definition of semi auto as us in our arms act 2016, page 6, point 49.

A semi auto for them performs all the action needed to fire the gun again with just the depression of the tigger. A self loading just reloads another round in the chamber. Hence you can have a "double action" only rifles in hands of ordinary citizen. Something that is quite similar to double action only handgun which is not considered "semi auto" under their laws.
Last edited by KDS991213 on Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by KDS991213 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:30 pm

marksman wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:21 pm
How ever I'd like to see and find out which double action Rifle you all are talking about. Would love to see the detailed picture as well.

Marksman
There were some other gun manufacturers like Franklin Armory trying to bypass this similar of "semi auto" law obviously not for India though. https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/fran ... show-2019/

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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by Vineet » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:27 pm

Companies do adapt as per laws. In shotgun cartridges, pellets above 5mm are banned in India, so Shaktiman came out with 4.8.

Because in some countries semi auto rifles are banned, so straight pull rifles came in.
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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by KDS991213 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:53 pm

Vineet wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:27 pm
Companies do adapt as per laws. In shotgun cartridges, pellets above 5mm are banned in India, so Shaktiman came out with 4.8.

Because in some countries semi auto rifles are banned, so straight pull rifles came in.
I think we need something like that as well.

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Re: Does a self loading rifle which requires you to manually cock the firing mechanism count as semi auto firearm?

Post by Vikram » Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:04 pm

Verney Carron Speedline. Designed to comply with the restrictions on semi-auto rifles. Again, one of those falls-in the-grey area examples.



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