Self-defence is a mug's game.

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Nattu
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Re: Self-defence is a mug's game.

Post by Nattu » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:51 am

To own a gun for self defence and to have the mental strength to use it for that are two different things. To a man, weaned on James Bond movies, the first may represent the symbol of manhood and perhaps be an obsession. But will he without any experience with severe injuries or death, like a Doctor, Policeman, or executioner, be able to injure or kill another human being? Should a man, having the necessity to own a gun for self-defence, also undergo psychiatric sessions for shooting without being squeamish? Even Arjuna had this drawback.

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Vikram
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Re: Self-defence is a mug's game.

Post by Vikram » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:37 am

Nattu wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:51 am
To own a gun for self defence and to have the mental strength to use it for that are two different things. To a man, weaned on James Bond movies, the first may represent the symbol of manhood and perhaps be an obsession. But will he without any experience with severe injuries or death, like a Doctor, Policeman, or executioner, be able to injure or kill another human being? Should a man, having the necessity to own a gun for self-defence, also undergo psychiatric sessions for shooting without being squeamish? Even Arjuna had this drawback.
Let's keep it simple. If someone is attempting to beat you into a pulp,maim you or kill you what would you do? How do you propose to protect yourself? If someone is being molested?
It ain’t over ’til it’s over! "Rocky,Rocky,Rocky....."

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Re: Self-defence is a mug's game.

Post by timmy » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:28 am

Nattu wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:51 am
To own a gun for self defence and to have the mental strength to use it for that are two different things. To a man, weaned on James Bond movies, the first may represent the symbol of manhood and perhaps be an obsession. But will he without any experience with severe injuries or death, like a Doctor, Policeman, or executioner, be able to injure or kill another human being? Should a man, having the necessity to own a gun for self-defence, also undergo psychiatric sessions for shooting without being squeamish? Even Arjuna had this drawback.
Your questions are very philosophical and deep. Perhaps you could help by telling us of your experiences of gun ownership and how mental strength has been a factor in your handling your gun, or guns. You speak as if you have had a lot of experience dealing with these issues.

Also, please tell us of your understanding of psychiatry and how you think the use of psychiatry would affect using a gun for self defense, or not.

I think that many inquiring minds would wish to partake of your expertise on these matters.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

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Re: Self-defence is a mug's game.

Post by Nattu » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:04 am

reply to Vikram:
If I were a filmy hero used to these type of incidents daily, I would single handedly beat up the villains and save the damsel. Being a normal person, I just don't know. I may stay frozen, call 100, shout for help, intervene or run away; Unless I carry a gun and have been trained, mentally and physically to react properly to such rare situations. Wonder how many of this forum members faced this situation and shot up the villains.
reply to timmy:
Your sarcasm is pretty disappointing,
I put forward my doubts, whether, without proper mental conditioning, a person will fire to wound or kill another even in self defence or handle the trauma afterwards.

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Re: Self-defence is a mug's game.

Post by timmy » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:56 am

I'm not interested in sarcasm, Nattu, but your peculiar habit of knowing all about someone that you can't know anything about is a weak foundation, even for strawman arguments.

I want to know what informs what you say. I asked about this, plain and simple.

So, again, are your doubts based on your experience and expertise in this matter, or are they only musings about a topic for which you have no personal knowledge? If it's the former, how about letting us in on your knowledge.

You talk about psychiatry, for instance -- what do you know about it that gives you insight into whether it's pertinent to this issue you raise, or not?

Are you a gun owner, or do you aspire to be one? If so, please tell us. If not, why are you here? I would hope that there is no reason for you to be obscure about your motives and intentions.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

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Re: Self-defence is a mug's game.

Post by Nattu » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:30 am

timmy ji! The subject of my post and not my qualification is relevant. Just for record, I don't own a gun but have been wanting to for a long time. Being an Indian and a protagonist of gun rights, I think I am qualified to be a member of IFG.

Perhaps parents should compulsorily send children to shooting clubs, or join them in NCC to learn shooting, safe handling of guns etcetera, and inculcate gun culture in their family, if they have guns or propose to get one. Else a gun may become more of a danger than be a saviour.

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Re: Self-defence is a mug's game.

Post by timmy » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:46 pm

Nattu wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:30 am
The subject of my post and not my qualification is relevant.
Perhaps you should give consideration to the fact that just your saying so does not make it true.

The strong language included in some of your posts, and the insinuation that your ideas should be considered in the decisions others make ought to raise the question in members' minds about whether you actually know something about what you are saying, or whether there are other things at play.

For instance, when you say:
Nattu wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:30 am
Perhaps parents should compulsorily send children to shooting clubs, or join them in NCC to learn shooting, safe handling of guns etcetera, and inculcate gun culture in their family, if they have guns or propose to get one. Else a gun may become more of a danger than be a saviour.
I wonder how many children you have raised, if any. (Note here that "raised" means that said children are out on their own! For just as the proof of the pudding is in the tasting, so one's methods of raising a child can only be determined once the process is completed.)

Since you don't own a gun, even if you have had children, and even if they are raised, there really isn't much that you're going to be able to share about how the process should be done, whether it's sending them off to be tutored by someone else, or done by parents, relatives, etc. You can't have experience behind what you are saying.

Of course, observing this doesn't put your final statement in a very good light, does it? If your qualifications for advising how to "inculcate gun culture in their family" are questionable, certainly your conclusion is even more speculative.

Sometime back, you even asserted, and I quote: "Most importantly this will help change the genetic timidity in future generations of Indians" in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28037&start=30

AgentDoubleS challenged you to provide an explanation of these words, which frankly could be taken by reasonable people as insulting (if not worse), but you declined to provide any explanation for your statement. Do you feel that your qualifications aren't important for making this statement either? Well, Nattu, I will tell you that, by formal training, I do have some knowledge about the subject of genetics, and I tell you here and now, your statement that I quoted is total rubbish.

You have been here now for 20 posts, and it does not appear that constructive contributions from you are to be expected judging by what we've seen so far. Perhaps you should give this some consideration. If you have ears, this would be a good time to use them, rather than your keyboard.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

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Vikram
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Re: Self-defence is a mug's game.

Post by Vikram » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:01 pm

Nattu wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:04 am
reply to Vikram:
If I were a filmy hero used to these type of incidents daily, I would single handedly beat up the villains and save the damsel. Being a normal person, I just don't know. I may stay frozen, call 100, shout for help, intervene or run away; Unless I carry a gun and have been trained, mentally and physically to react properly to such rare situations. Wonder how many of this forum members faced this situation and shot up the villains.
Honestly, please spare us the high dudgeon. You were not expressing doubts or seeking views. You were pontificating and belittling those who choose to arm themselves in case they need to protect themselves or their families. The quoted text above proves that. Do you have any form of insurance? If so, why?

Owning a firearm is the same. Just in case one is needed. I would rather have the chance of defending myself than not. I will deal with my psychological trauma, if any, in the comfort of my home than peacefully buried in a grave.

You are welcome to participate in discussions here as a member for you state that you are an aspiring gin owner. It will do a lot of good if you open your eyes to the various aspects of owning firearms instead of pronouncing judgements.
It ain’t over ’til it’s over! "Rocky,Rocky,Rocky....."

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