HELP, HELP!

A posts related to self defence/ home defence. Please post anything related to legal aspects in the 'Legal Eagle' section.
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pkaran
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HELP, HELP!

Post by pkaran » Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:03 pm

Hello All IFG'ians!

I am scheduled to meet the DM of my District for a hearing in connection with my application for an Arms Licence. Please, please, please help me how to prepare myself for the planned meet. I have only a few days left. Please treat this as absolutely urgent. If IFG members cannot help me, who else should?

Looking earnestly forward to hearing from you!

Thanks, Karan

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Shivaji.Dasgupta
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Re: HELP, HELP!

Post by Shivaji.Dasgupta » Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:13 am

Only the concerned DM and God can say what sort of questions he may ask. But atleast you are lucky that DM is ready to meet you. I have applied for the Arms Licence and to transfer my uncles weapons in my name ( My uncle expired last year due to Covid and he was bachelor) . All papers and documents are in order no movement of the file in last 7 months.
My suggestion is prepare your documents with photocopy and original. Your logic for applying Arms licence, and all sort of supporting required for the same ( may be if you want to apply for sports so documents clarify your involvement with sports and your need to have your personal weapon etc)
Though I am not having any hands on experience on this matter as of now. But I have heard that many types of irrelevant questions also asked in this sort of meetings.
Regards

Shivaji

Peacefulguns
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Re: HELP, HELP!

Post by Peacefulguns » Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:00 am

If your job requires travel, transport of money do state it. Self defence is always a good reason. Your perception of risk is good enough.

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timmy
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Re: HELP, HELP!

Post by timmy » Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:45 pm

These two suggestions may be completely off-base and unhelpful, given the different environment I'm in, but human nature is generally the same, so I'll take a shot.

I lived in a place that was notorious for having many more gun permits than any other county in the state. Finally they cracked down and started making drastic cuts in the concealed permits that were issued. The process stayed the same: First, I had to go to the district judge, and then I had to go to the sheriff's office, where this business was always handled by the undersheriff.

The judge was an old time politician and lawyer, plus he had been the federal congressman for 10 years. He knew John F Kennedy. But he had lost, ran for governor and lost, and now was the district judge.

"What do you want to carry a gun for, Tim?" he would ask.

"Your honor, I'm a member of the gun club, and often travel with my family and carry when traveling for the safety of my family," I would reply.

"You don't mix drinking and guns now, do you Tim?"

"No, Your Honor, I don't drink alcohol," I would reply.

That's good, he would always say, while signing my application.

Then, it was to the undersheriff. The first time I saw him, I went with my Dad, who noticed that the undersheriff collected the official shoulder patches from other law enforcement bureaus across the country. My Dad's good friend was the chaplain of the police department where they lived, and every year would give Dad a shoulder patch or two that I would receive. I would take them to the undersheriff every year.

Although many people were cut off (well over half, I think), I was never denied my permit.

My suggestion here is to carefully avoid looking like someone who was likely to blast another person or is in some way unreasonable. I suspect this official will try to ask you something for which you have not prepared, to throw you off balance. Remember, he knows all of the tricks, because he sees a lot of people. You, on the other hand, don't know the sorts of things he will try and what others do. Being level headed and relaxed will also count for something, whatever he asks.

Best of luck to you.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

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Woods
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Re: HELP, HELP!

Post by Woods » Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:51 pm

The question is - are you concerned for getting the license immediately or play poker with the system and maybe eventually win but spending a lot of time and brains in the process .

I have been in Government service for 12 years and got my handgun license in 2012 . In last fifteen years i have seen many many of my acquaintances acquiring a gun license and earning different experiences as per their different approach. There has been one " big brother " of mine whom it took 2 days in DM office to get his application forwarded , 2 days in commissioner ' s office for the same and just another one day at the office of Principal secretary Home department of Madhya pradesh .

My two cents : meet the DM , tell your reasons and get the hell over with it . Then most importantly meet his Steno ( who is actually the de facto DM of the place for decades ) , make friends with him or at least have a courteous coffee with him , say to him that you need the license anyways and urgently . He will quote some charges for which he may not be intending to issue receipts. Happily ( please ) pay those charges as per your convenience and get the job done . N
A person applying for arms license is seen as an over enthusiastic fat fish ready to spend money in some useless non productive idea otherwise anyonecan keep a wezpon why to obtain a license . ( pardon me its their perception not mine ) .

Or , if you are averse to above idea be patient and keep pursuing the matter , chances are you will get the license though after some time .
Great men are not born great , they grow great .

pkaran
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Re: HELP, HELP!

Post by pkaran » Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:45 pm

Sincere thanks to all who have responded to me!
Here is some additional information:

Reasons for applying:
1. We are an aged couple staying alone. We have begotten no children, nor do we have any one else in our relations to stay with us. We find that it is those aged couple who are targeted by criminals because they are easily vulnerable.
2. We are staying in a sprawling 3850 square feet house which has an iconic design structure and on which I pay luxury tax. This building is surrounded by roads on all three sides, thus drawing the attention of the traffic. We have often seen people on two-wheelers stopping by and its pillion-rider taking photographs of our house. We feel frightened as Bundy Chor who broke into a house at Trivandrum was enticed by the opulent design of the house. Please do not share anything that can identify you on the public forum-Moderator
3. The locality where we stay had witnessed the murder of a woman staying alone in the past in a rape attempt.
4. My wife and I are planning an extensive tour of India that will cover Tirupathi in TN, the Ajanta and Ellora Caves in Maharashtra, the Ramoji Film City in Hyderabad, Taj Mahal in UP, the Golden Temple in Punjab, Nainithal in Utterakhand and several other places in Rajasthan etc., with my wife. Several of these States have reported frequent rape cases. Thus, a reliable companion to take care of our security is critical.
5. I have two premium vehicles, a house built with a total cost in excess of one Cr and security of my house and properties is critical.

Regards, PKaran

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Woods
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Re: HELP, HELP!

Post by Woods » Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:33 pm

I do not think you can effectively secure all this with a gun licence , especially when you're planning to be out of your state for at least a month or more . How will you see back so far and take aim with any gun at your disposal. Nor will a gun installed st your house will provide cover for you in the journey . Assuming that you would like to keep the gun with yourself in the journey , you will need an All India area validity for your license that can be issued by State Govt and not local DM so it will take some time .
Meanwhile why not hire some able guard from a reputable security agency . Let a little money trickle down a bit . Peace of mind .
Great men are not born great , they grow great .

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timmy
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Re: HELP, HELP!

Post by timmy » Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:44 pm

Remember that a gun is just like your DM: you don't know what will occur when you see him, and gun or not, there's no way to know what kind of a situation you might encounter. You don't even know whether having the gun will cause more trouble than it solves, which is always a possibility.

Furthermore, I very well understand your feelings due to age. Before we retired, I scoured data for crime statistics for many retirement location possibilities. Low crime was the number one criterion in the choice, because being old (and getting older every second!), I knew that my physical abilities and mental alertness were not what they were when I was 25, and were not bound to improve. I can't count on physically matching up to goons anymore. I can still hit targets at the range will enough to encourage the goon to have a will, but will my alertness, awareness, and reactions be sufficient to do the job?

We don't even know how the DM will treat you -- how can it be known beforehand if a goon will come after either of us, or how he will do it, if he does?

Noting my study of statistics, within a month after moving here, we had a tornado (quite rare at this high altitude) and a trigger happy cop blasted a fellow to death for not using his turn signal to make a left hand turn. Really, there's only a certain level of predictability in life. There's no way to be assured about such things.

Carrying a weapon is, I think, a way to improve one's odds of surviving a bad situation. It is not a guarantee against bad things happening. As Woods correctly points out, you can't protect your house with a gun from any of the places you've listed. Whether the gun will protect you in those places is a risk you must assess.

One thing I can tell you that is likely: If you go to the DM displaying the anxiety that your posts are showing, you will lower your likelihood of being successful considerably. He is going to look at you and try to judge whether you are a self controlled person, or whether an incident is likely to occur if he issues a license to you. You see, whether he's well-disposed to gun ownership or not, he also has risks to weigh.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

pkaran
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Re: HELP, HELP!

Post by pkaran » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:16 am

Dear Shivaji, Peacefulguns, Woods, Et all,
Thank you indeed for your time writing to me! The message from Timmy deserves particular recognition.
Regards, Karan

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