Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

A posts related to self defence/ home defence. Please post anything related to legal aspects in the 'Legal Eagle' section.
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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by mundaire » Sat May 12, 2012 8:45 am

Bhargav wrote:I don't know the latest about Mumbai coz it has been almost 6 yrs. that I have been to mumbai. But I think the license issuance thing is still strict and an issue. I don't think there are as many gun owners in Mumbai as compared to Delhi or Noida.
Doubt if the crooks & mafia types are queuing up for licenses... w.r.t how many guns are floating around in Delhi have started a new thread (so as not to hijack this one) http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17421

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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by essdee1972 » Thu May 17, 2012 10:53 am

I don't know the latest about Mumbai coz it has been almost 6 yrs. that I have been to mumbai. But I think the license issuance thing is still strict and an issue. I don't think there are as many gun owners in Mumbai as compared to Delhi or Noida.
Nowadays it seems Mumbai Police takes "pride" in rejecting 99% of license applications. Plus they use all sorts of "convenient" (and not very legal) criteria like property, threats, domicile (at least 15 years residence or birth), etc., etc. to reject.

On the SD note, my driver once used a 2.5 ton weapon (aka Tata Indigo) to get away from bike-borne (and stick wielding) "donation collectors" on Mumbai-Alibag road. Hit one of them side-on and drove like hell. Dunno what scared me more - the gangsters or this guy's driving skills!!!

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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by Bhargav » Thu May 17, 2012 12:48 pm

essdee1972 wrote:
I don't know the latest about Mumbai coz it has been almost 6 yrs. that I have been to mumbai. But I think the license issuance thing is still strict and an issue. I don't think there are as many gun owners in Mumbai as compared to Delhi or Noida.
Nowadays it seems Mumbai Police takes "pride" in rejecting 99% of license applications. Plus they use all sorts of "convenient" (and not very legal) criteria like property, threats, domicile (at least 15 years residence or birth), etc., etc. to reject.

On the SD note, my driver once used a 2.5 ton weapon (aka Tata Indigo) to get away from bike-borne (and stick wielding) "donation collectors" on Mumbai-Alibag road. Hit one of them side-on and drove like hell. Dunno what scared me more - the gangsters or this guy's driving skills!!!

Cheers!
Well the FAQ on the mumbaipolice website does not list all those documents.

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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by essdee1972 » Fri May 18, 2012 11:22 am

Bhargav, this info is not hard-core "substantiated" - I was told this by a lawyer neighbour, who sometimes arranges legal (?) help in getting licences. As per him, the babus / coppers are looking for any damn excuse to reject, hence these are "convenient" criteria - 'the person does not have property, so he does not need license'...... 'person does not have domicile, hence he should not have license in this state', blah blah. He also said that if I was willing to spend freely, I would get a license in no time. The 99% figure for rejection was published in newspapers about a year or so back. Actually it adds up - to reject 99% applications, one needs all sorts of excuses - lame or otherwise!
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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by slingshot » Fri May 18, 2012 11:47 am

Many of us in this forum, do not conceal carry a firearm.

I always carry a small blade on me. My EDC is a Boker Subcom with a keychain and keys. It is unobstrusive, does not look like a blade, small and the ring of the keychain holds my little finger, making it very difficult to disarm. I also carry a hand held impact device...a pointed ball point pen will do nicely. In my car, I keep an old scuffed baseball bat and a ball. What I am trying to say, is that we need to be prepared all the time.

I have written this earlier somewhere on this site and I am re-producing my comments here as they might be relevant on this thread too.

As a long term student of Krav Maga (and I mean no disrespect to any other combat form), I can vouch that we do not relate to books during a situation of physical stress. There are usually 4 possible levels of physical threat :

1. Competition : Usually, governed by rules and there is no major threat to life. I do not mean that people in MMA or boxing or other combat linked sports do not get hurt. They do. However, the intent is to compete, showcase skill and the sparring is usually governed by rules that safeguard the competitors from definite death.

2. One on one upmanship : This is usually what you see in Bars or on the road. Heated tempers, lots of shouting, jostling, pushing. There might be a possibility of more than one attacker. However there are possibly people who will intervene and separate the parties or might join in the fisticuffs. This situation has a higher risk of physical harm than the first situation. This is street fight or a bar brawl and the situation is free flowing. Chairs, bottles and other improvised weapons could be in use. However the threat of losing ones life is somewhat remote as this is again a situation where there are witnesses, police, parties that can intervene and better counsel can prevail after tempers are cooled down.

3. Definite physical harm : Now this is a bad situation. I can assure you that you will get hurt. This is premeditated and you could be in the wrong place at the wrong time. For example you have just arrived at a lane where 3 muggers are waiting for a victim. There are usually more than one assailant, they will be armed and if it is knifes, you will be definitely cut. Only a high level of training and repeated practice that allows your body to ingrain the technique into muscle memory can help you get out of this. No book, theory, knowledge can help. There is no thinking, remembering or planning. You are simply flowing, reacting, attacking, knowing fully well that you will get hurt, but with the singular determination to survive and cut down the opposition without any remorse or hesitation. You are the weapon.

4. Armed combat : This is when you are in armed combat in the military, para-military against an enemy. It is kill or be killed.

As a rule, please only train for situation 3 and situation 4. The first two situations will take care of themselves if you follow this approach. Please learn a blade technique. Possibly the Kerambit in Silat Gayong or a cut, thrust, slash technique. Also, know how to handle a firearm. In situation 3, you will be surprised to know that most criminals have a point and shoot technique. Crude. It might help you to neutralise the situation if you can learn some basic disarming and accurate shooting.

This approach takes practice and time. But then we all have one life. Why lose it to some street trash with a bad knife!
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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by Bhargav » Fri May 18, 2012 12:12 pm

essdee1972 wrote:Bhargav, this info is not hard-core "substantiated" - I was told this by a lawyer neighbour, who sometimes arranges legal (?) help in getting licences. As per him, the babus / coppers are looking for any damn excuse to reject, hence these are "convenient" criteria - 'the person does not have property, so he does not need license'...... 'person does not have domicile, hence he should not have license in this state', blah blah. He also said that if I was willing to spend freely, I would get a license in no time. The 99% figure for rejection was published in newspapers about a year or so back. Actually it adds up - to reject 99% applications, one needs all sorts of excuses - lame or otherwise!
essdee, Thank you for throwing light on this issue.

I understand how our system works but did your lawyer neighbor mentioned any case studies where he had succeeded in getting a license for the applicant where it was rejected the first time ?

Whenever I return to Mumbai I am planning to pursue this till the end. So if the lawyers can fight it legally with positive results then it will add encouragement.

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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by essdee1972 » Fri May 18, 2012 12:31 pm

Bhargav, will ask him when I see him next. Actually, I sense that he's more of a "facilitator" - in the under-the-table sense - than a crusader for RKBA. As he said to me, "do lakh de dijiye, main kara doonga" - pay 2 lacs, I'll get you license. Let's be in touch through PM on this - this thread looks quite OTT!!!
Cheers!

EssDee
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Get up, stand up, Stand up for your rights. Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.Bob Marley

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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by Bhargav » Fri May 18, 2012 9:45 pm

essdee1972 wrote:Bhargav, will ask him when I see him next. Actually, I sense that he's more of a "facilitator" - in the under-the-table sense - than a crusader for RKBA. As he said to me, "do lakh de dijiye, main kara doonga" - pay 2 lacs, I'll get you license. Let's be in touch through PM on this - this thread looks quite OTT!!!
wow, I hope this will change by the time I come back :)

sure will pm you.

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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by Safarigent » Fri May 18, 2012 10:20 pm

Bhargav,
A good lawyer will get your case sorted out for far far less mate! Legally that is.
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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by essdee1972 » Fri May 18, 2012 11:36 pm

Bhargav, I will anyway be applying "shortly" (being extremely lazy, shortly is a flexible term for me ;) ). I don't intend to pay anything UTT. Better to fight it out. In the meantime, I will search for a good lawyer.
Cheers!

EssDee
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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by ak27 » Fri May 18, 2012 11:45 pm

A very straight-forward analysis there slingshot. Sure it will help in clearing some of the myths of SD.

I hear Krav Maga is excellent for SD due to it's primary focus on using any object around you for offending the attacker. Considering it's emphasis on quick reaction and preemptive neutralization, it does take a lot of practice to successfully apply it in real-life situations.

But I beg to differ on 'learning a blade technique' like cut, thrust, slash technique etc. Because, due to the high adrenaline pump-up in a self defence situation especially when the other guy is also armed with a blade, no well-conceived technique is much effective. The simplest and effective thing to do when you are forced to the point is just to keep on stabbing the attacker at the fastest pace at his weakest spot(s).
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Re: Your experiences of Self Defense in Real Life

Post by Bhargav » Sat May 19, 2012 12:17 am

essdee1972 wrote:Bhargav, I will anyway be applying "shortly" (being extremely lazy, shortly is a flexible term for me ;) ). I don't intend to pay anything UTT. Better to fight it out. In the meantime, I will search for a good lawyer.
Great, good luck to you.

Please start a new post once you apply so that we all can track it and hopefully help.

Thanks and may god be with you.

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