1986 Miami FBI Shootout- genesis of 10mm and .40 S&W rounds

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ssmickey.32
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1986 Miami FBI Shootout- genesis of 10mm and .40 S&W rounds

Post by ssmickey.32 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:53 pm

This clip is from the 'made for TV' movie entitled "In The Line Of Duty" staring David Soul. On April 11, 1986 a firefight ensued between 8 FBI agents and 2 known murderers/bank robbers Michael Platt and William Matix. This is arguably the most documented and analyzed firearms shootout in modern history. Before the fight was over, FBI Special Agents Jerry Dove and Ben Grogan were killed by .223 gunshots from a Ruger mini-14 at the hands of Michael Platt. Platt himself had sustained 12 gun shot wounds (9mm, .38 and 00 shot) but continued to fight killing both Grogan and Dove. Toxicology reports on Platt and Matix found no evidence of drugs or alcohol in either man. This fire fight and the resulting aftermath were the genesis of the 10mm and .40 S&W rounds.

[youtube][/youtube]

One FBI agent lost/seriously wounded as his his pistol jammed...
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Re: 1986 Miami FBI Shootout- genesis of 10mm and .40 S&W rou

Post by YogiBear » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:46 pm

Aloha,

Turned out that the 10mm S & W was too much gun for most FBI agents to handle.

Thus the development of the 40 SW.

Much like the 38 is to the 357.

Not to mention the 10mm is loo long a cartridge to fit in a standard 9mm grip.

The 40SW will fit in a 9mm framed firearm and is easier for Most law enforcement officers to handle.

Having Both 9mm and 40 SW in 90 series Berettas, I can say that the 40 does recoil More than the 9mm.

What is Not common knowledge is that by changing the barrel in a 40SW Beretta to 9mm,

the 9mm can safely be fired without changing any other component. The 9mm will feed from a 40 magazine.

The 40 slide will work with a 9mm case. Likewise the 40 will feed from a 9mm magazine.

To shoot a 40 SW in a 9mm gun, all that is need to change is the barrel and slide to 40 cal.

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Re: 1986 Miami FBI Shootout- genesis of 10mm and .40 S&W rou

Post by BowMan » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:18 pm

Perhaps the most important shootout in Law enforcement History.

That guy Michael Lee Platt was also a really tough nail.

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Re: 1986 Miami FBI Shootout- genesis of 10mm and .40 S&W rou

Post by gladiatorgarg » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:47 am

wow a great video i really feel pity for those poor law enforcers with inferior fire power....but great to see that their govt took stock of the sit and took care of the problem...when will our govt wake up :?: :?:

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Re: 1986 Miami FBI Shootout- genesis of 10mm and .40 S&W rou

Post by TwoRivers » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:02 pm

gladiatorgarg wrote:wow a great video i really feel pity for those poor law enforcers with inferior fire power....but great to see that their govt took stock of the sit and took care of the problem...when will our govt wake up :?: :?:
Not inferior firepower, inability to place a killing or disabling shot.

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Re: 1986 Miami FBI Shootout- genesis of 10mm and .40 S&W rou

Post by pistolero » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:09 pm

Reading this, could not help but remember the North Hollywood Shootout! I believe post this the DoD provided LAPD with M16's, and I the local PD's acquired some 5.56 AR-15s.
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Re: 1986 Miami FBI Shootout- genesis of 10mm and .40 S&W rou

Post by YogiBear » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:28 am

Aloha,

One of the killers was shot by FBI agent using S & W M-65 357 magnum

A close examination by Massad Ayoob in American Handgunner

FBI made several gross mistakes.

Knew they were after armed shooters.

Bullet resistant vests were in the trunk of cars and Not worn.

One agent left his 9mm on seat of car and lost it when crashed into BG's car.

One agent did not secure glasses to head and lost it in car crash. Couldn't see with out glasses.

Long guns were in trunk and not in hand.

Yes, the FBI has learned from their mistakes.

FBI switched to H & K MP sub gun in 10mm for better auto body penetration.

The 10mm guns did not last long as many agents could not handle recoil.

I saw FBI demo using 10mm sub gun. Afterwards I discussed it with the instructor

who told me why they switched from 10mm to either 9mm or 40SW.

OT, the FBI building and the land it is on is for sale.

Wife and I have been there, most UGLY government building we have seen

FBI is moving out to Virginia. Hoping sale of Prime land will pay for new facilities.

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Re: 1986 Miami FBI Shootout- genesis of 10mm and .40 S&W rou

Post by SARGE7402 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:20 am

[gvideo][/gvideo]Actually they did not learn. First the failure was 90% on a tactical level. They knew these folks were killers yet failed to have any heavy weaponry close at hand. Additionally shotgun was only present and only held buck shot. No rifles, no MP5's no slugs. Also lack of coordination with local law enforcement. No one bothered to tell the local cops what the FBI was doing.
Actually Platt was a walking dead man within seconds of the gun fight starting. They think that either a 38 LHP or one of Jerry Dove's silver tips had plowed thru Platt's forearm into his chest and had snipped a major blood vessel and he was slowly bleeding out.

There were also additional problems with the 10MM smiths (I lived next to Quantico where the FBI agent school is) and more than one loaded S&W 10 MM auto had to be sent back to the factory as they couldn't eject a loaded round, drop the hammer safetly. Was not really a great weapon.
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’

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Re: 1986 Miami FBI Shootout- genesis of 10mm and .40 S&W rou

Post by timmy » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am

Thanks, Sarge, good information!
Regards,
tim

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