Offensive vs Defensive calibers

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Safarigent
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Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by Safarigent » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:05 pm

Respected members,
Would be good to know the views of knowledgeable members about offensive calibers vs defensive calibers.
Doesnt make much sense to me
Thanks in advance
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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by xl_target » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:15 pm

Not sure what you are looking for.
Any caliber, including .22 LR can be used for offensive or defensive purposes.
"Offensive and Defensive caliber" sounds more like Internet hot air

However, if you have a specific task that has to be tackled, you could be a little more specific in choosing a caliber to fit the mission.
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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by goodboy_mentor » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:21 pm

Doesn't make much sense to me too. A legally allowed offense is equal to defense. And to save oneself, one should be able to do the legally allowed offense in the most effective manner possible. Isn't it? For example if faced with situation as mentioned in Section 100 of Indian Penal Code, why one should not implement the legal offense allowed in Section 100 IPC in the most effective manner possible?
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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by Safarigent » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:36 pm

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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by Vikram » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:41 pm

Will have to agree with XL and GBM. Your purpose defines whether it is an act of offence or defence than the calibre itself. Even if defined in terms of arms,depending on the usage, the same logic applies

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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by Safarigent » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:51 pm

Hmm... True.
I just saw these posts and had similar thoughts.
After all jessica lal was killed with a .22LR
So in my book a caliber is a caliber which you decide upon depending on the job at hand.
But then these posts got me confused.
:(
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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by hardeepsinghbedi » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:07 pm

I think of a defensive pistol as one that's easily concealable and can be brought into action quickly e.g. snubbies, compact autos, etc. of at least a .38 special or greater cartridge. A good offensive pistol would have target grade qualities for accuracy (excellent sights and smooth trigger).

An offensive pistol wouldn't need to be as light or concealable as a defensive pistol. A medium or large frame revolver with a 4-6 in. barrel or a 4 + in. semi-auto on a steel frame would fit the bill.
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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by xl_target » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:27 am

Reading through those links you posted:
From a military standpoint, a pistol is usually a weapon of last resort.
Even for SWAT or CQB, most units use submachine guns or carbines as their primary weapons,rather than pistols.
For permitted carry, I'd much rather carry a rifle than a pistol but it is not practical.
There is a saying in the carry community that says a pistol is just something that allows you to fight your way to your rifle.

Other comments in those links commenting on the "awesome knockdown power" of the .45 ACP; if only it was that easy. It's all about shot placement.
A shot that disables the central nervous system from any caliber is going to be more effective than a clean miss with a howitzer.
Failing that, breaking a hip or a knee will cause an assailant to go down, even if your assailant is high on drugs (one subject commonly brought up in discussions like these :)).

As far as "defensive calibers" or "offensive calibers", they're just a figure of speech
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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by Skyman » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:40 am

IMHO, a ball of lead traveling at speed will offend anyone in it's path, regardless of caliber or intent.
I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by xl_target » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:20 am

IMHO, a ball of lead traveling at speed will offend anyone in it's path, regardless of caliber or intent.
LOL, Yes.


Reading the following story reminded me of your question.
Was the store owner worried about whether he was an using offensive or defensive caliber? I'm sure he was only thinking about saving his wife's life.
That also brings up another point, here was a clear case for needing more than a ten round magazine.
Ramon Castillo is being been heralded as a hero for fatally shooting three armed robbers who tied up his wife and forced her to the floor face-down a week ago at the family's east-side jewelry store.

But 52-year-old Castillo, a gentle-mannered man who remained in the hospital Wednesday coping with six bullet holes and an abundance of guilt, calls himself something else: a murderer.

Despite his belief the robbers would have killed him and Eva, his wife of 30 years, the avid hunter who doesn't drink will struggle with the ordeal, said his only son, 28-year-old Juan Daniel Castillo.

"He knows they would have killed him and my mom, but he's having a hard time. That's the kind of man he is," said his son, who was at the Galleria shopping for his parents' Christmas gifts when his mother called hysterical after the shootout, urging her son to rush to the hospital to see his father.

Family members spoke publicly Wednesday for the first time about the ordeal and provided new details of how the wild shootout went down.

Two men dressed in preppy outfits walked into the 25-year-old business in the 4500 block of Canal around 2 p.m. Dec. 16 and presented a 10-karat gold ring bearing three small diamond chips (now a Castillo family souvenir), inquiring about its value.

Face-off with three men
About five minutes later, another man — the apparent ringleader of the robbery — entered the store, holding a pistol and shouted in Spanish it was a robbery and ordered one of the other men to take the Castillos in the back and tie them up, he said.

Ramon Castillo pleaded with the robbers, urging the men to take whatever they wanted. But the three armed men ignored Castillo, a father of three known for his generosity with people in need and his instincts.

"They were going to tie them up and shoot them in the head. They didn't have their faces covered," Juan Daniel Castillo said of his parents. "One man tied up my mom with plastic tie straps. They threw her on her stomach on the floor. She hit her face on the floor. Then this guy went to tie up my dad. He got a tie strap on my dad's left hand. When this guy took my dad's right hand and pulled it behind him, my dad reached for his gun behind his back."

'God was there'
As the other two robbers were still in the front of the store, Castillo, an avid hunter, whipped his hand around the front of his body, pointed the 9 mm Beretta behind him toward the robber and pulled the trigger — all while keeping his eyes ahead, watching for the other two men in the showroom.

"He shot him in the eye. That guy died instantly," his son said.

The two robbers up front then opened fire with pistols, sending several rounds throughout the store.

Castillo, still keeping an eye open for the gunmen, told his wife to stay down and returned fire, one of his shots striking a fire extinguisher, whose contents fogged the store, minimizing visibility, and, his son believes, helping his father execute his plan.

"God was there," he said.

Castillo then backed up — eyes still forward — grabbed a .380 and fired a few rounds toward the front of the store as he was making his way to a new sawed-off shotgun leaning against a wall that had never been fired.

Shotgun in his hands — and praying the gun wouldn't fail him — Castillo then moved toward the front, trying to see through the fog.

He heard a click from one of the men's pistols, followed by the sound of a bullet cartridge hitting the floor.

Realizing that at least one of the men was out of ammunition, Castillo took aim and shot both men in the face.

They too dropped and died.
Authorities have identified the three robbers as Nelson Wilfredo Tambora-Ramiro, 21, Rene Rodriguez, 25, and Onilton Bolanos Castillano, 38.

Castillo then told his wife: "Mama, they hit me."

Four bullets pierced Castillo's body six times — two of the bullets went through both legs — but didn't strike any bone. He was also shot in his stomach and right shoulder.
Read More HERE
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by TwoRivers » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:52 am

hardeepsinghbedi wrote:I think of a defensive pistol as one that's easily concealable and can be brought into action quickly e.g. snubbies, compact autos, etc. of at least a .38 special or greater cartridge. A good offensive pistol would have target grade qualities for accuracy (excellent sights and smooth trigger).

An offensive pistol wouldn't need to be as light or concealable as a defensive pistol. A medium or large frame revolver with a 4-6 in. barrel or a 4 + in. semi-auto on a steel frame would fit the bill.
That's a whole other topic. "Offensive vs Defensive Weapons". The topic is about "calibers", not weapons.

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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by hardeepsinghbedi » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:00 am

Thank you for your information but I know what I am writing.
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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by Baljit » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:17 am

hardeepsinghbedi wrote: I know what I am writing.

We all know what are you writing but don't you think you should show some respect to the other member.If you think you are the only gun guru here on this site then you are wrong my friend.


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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by Safarigent » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:57 am

Alright then, so its just a lot of hot air, this offensive vs defensive caliber thing.
Skyman, you had me laughing at your comment.
So, what do you guys carry? Offensive or defensive fire arms?
I am also guessing, the iof handguns chambered in .32 calibers will be termed as defensive?
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Re: Offensive vs Defensive calibers

Post by Skyman » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:08 am

Winnie has noted the .32 for it's awesome tickling power... ROTFL a .380 if you can afford it would be my pick.Regardless of caliber, being able to consistently hit vital areas is what you should be able to do.
I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

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