Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

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essdee1972
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by essdee1972 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:21 pm

Gents, this kind of incidents can happen anywhere, to anybody. I am sure no one in this thread ever intended that "Bangalore" be blamed for this.

The question here is "how do we prevent these things from happening". And I am sure "staying away from Bangalore / Delhi / Kolkata / Timbuktu" is emphatically NOT a solution!

Manning all ATMs will impact the bottomline of banks severely. And since dollar is the king, somehow these guys will find a way to squirm out of this requirement. Similarly, if you ask banks to have all ATMs in high-traffic, well-lit areas, it will again hit them in the form of higher rentals. Practically, whatever the Karnataka govt. or RBI says, somehow or the other, we are still going to have unguarded, unsafe ATMs.

Hence the onus of our safety lies where it naturally should, with ourselves. Some tips I have learnt about ATMs, both from the net, as well as my own experience......

1. Do not go to ATMs where / when there is no one about. If your bank doesn't have a "safe" ATM in the vicinity, withdraw from another ATM. 20 bucks service charge ain't worth a life.
2. Do not count money inside ATMs. Those counting machines are more accurate than a roomful of bank tellers. There are people who can guess the amount when you are counting. (apart from safety it's also irritating to the next guy in line when you insist on counting and recounting!!!)
3. The doors of ATMs are padded on the edges to keep the airconditioning costs down. Screaming won't help.
4. "Close to a police station" means nothing. Especially in a country where "who guards the guardians" is an everyday question.
5. Many ATMs, for safety, have semi-opaque stickers on their glass doors. This prevents anyone outside from seeing in. By the same token, if you are having a life-and-death struggle inside an ATM, passers-by won't be aware of the same.
6. If someone asks for money with a weapon bigger than the one you have, hand over the money. Even if you have the bigger weapon, hand over the money. Even a few billions isn't worth your life, or a prison sentence.
7. Do not take your entire family into an ATM. It's not a picnic, for God's sake! Let them stay outside at a safe distance, so that if trouble happens, they can at least call the cops. I confess to taking my kid to ATMs earlier, until I read this and wondered what I would do if someone snatched him and held a knife to his throat until I emptied my account. As shown in numerous Bollywood movies, familes are ideal hostages.
8. In an ATM or anywhere else, get the headphones out of your ears, keep the smartphone in your pocket, keep your eyes and ears open.

The same points as above, when posted on Facebook, got me a lot of flak a few months back.......!! I confess to having "sheeple" as friends!!
Cheers!

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by farook » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:37 pm

As far as the ATM precautions goes your perfectly right. But did this man harm the women with the intentions of robbing her. Did he rob her. NO. She was wearing gold, a few lakhs worth of gold. He just left it. My guess is it was a case of personal dispute. Being a branch manager she would have either declined a loan to a person who hired this gonda or harressed a person of loan default. This cannot be a case of common robbery. Robbers don't leave valuables on you when they can steal it.
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by bennedose » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:05 pm

essdee1972 wrote:
1. Do not go to ATMs where / when there is no one about. If your bank doesn't have a "safe" ATM in the vicinity, withdraw from another ATM. 20 bucks service charge ain't worth a life.
2. Do not count money inside ATMs. Those counting machines are more accurate than a roomful of bank tellers. There are people who can guess the amount when you are counting. (apart from safety it's also irritating to the next guy in line when you insist on counting and recounting!!!)
3. The doors of ATMs are padded on the edges to keep the airconditioning costs down. Screaming won't help.
4. "Close to a police station" means nothing. Especially in a country where "who guards the guardians" is an everyday question.
5. Many ATMs, for safety, have semi-opaque stickers on their glass doors. This prevents anyone outside from seeing in. By the same token, if you are having a life-and-death struggle inside an ATM, passers-by won't be aware of the same.
6. If someone asks for money with a weapon bigger than the one you have, hand over the money. Even if you have the bigger weapon, hand over the money. Even a few billions isn't worth your life, or a prison sentence.
7. Do not take your entire family into an ATM. It's not a picnic, for God's sake! Let them stay outside at a safe distance, so that if trouble happens, they can at least call the cops. I confess to taking my kid to ATMs earlier, until I read this and wondered what I would do if someone snatched him and held a knife to his throat until I emptied my account. As shown in numerous Bollywood movies, familes are ideal hostages.
8. In an ATM or anywhere else, get the headphones out of your ears, keep the smartphone in your pocket, keep your eyes and ears open.
Good points.

May I add one?

If the ATM has a shutter that someone can pull down when you are inside, seacrh for another ATM

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by Vikram » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:35 pm

Little to add to what has already been said. A few of my observations.

1.The perp looks like a professional and it is not his first. He looked well practised and composed.

2.As someone mentioned, if fighting back is not an option, then giving the money would probably be the better option.

3. Pepper spray in a confined enclosure like that may not be a good idea as the user can also get it in his/her own eyes.

4. It looks to me like the perp did not want to kill her but chopped her up out of spite that she did not withdraw more money.

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by farook » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:43 pm

Vikram wrote:Little to add to what has already been said. A few of my observations.

1.The perp looks like a professional and it is not his first. He looked well practised and composed.

2.As someone mentioned, if fighting back is not an option, then giving the money would probably be the better option.

3. Pepper spray in a confined enclosure like that may not be a good idea as the user can also get it in his/her own eyes.

4. It looks to me like the perp did not want to kill her but chopped her up out of spite that she did not withdraw more money.

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Vikram

That is the point I am trying to make here. This is a case not of a common robbery. Hired gunda by some Victim of the Banks atrocity....There is cash prize for anyone who has any http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/rs-1 ... herstories
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by bennedose » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:57 pm

One of the problems about being in an ATM is that your hands and eyes and attention are busy. You insert the card, punch in numbers and replies, remove the card and then hold it or replace it in a purse/wallet/pocket, then wait for the money etc.

Unless you have 007 type training one cannot also simultaneously have a gun or weapon handy to overcome an attacker - expecially if you have been to an ATM 1000 times and have never been attacked.

Of course one must take precatutions, but the bottom line is that ATMs must be designed to make it inconvenient for a mugger. Helping him by having features that allow him to hide from public view is a mistake. Why not simply have a bolt that a user locks whle he uses it - but the walls should be transparent so others can see what is happening inside. If public toilet doors can have a latch inside while someone is using it, why not an ATM?

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by farook » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:10 pm

bennedose wrote:
essdee1972 wrote:

6. If someone asks for money with a weapon bigger than the one you have, hand over the money. Even if you have the bigger weapon, hand over the money. Even a few billions isn't worth your life, or a prison sentence.
Do you really believe sir he is going to let you go after your have given him your money. He may not want to leave a witness who can later testify in court. There is something we need to understand here. Under the IPC sections 98 to 103 we have right to self defense and there have been numerous cases were people have shot back and saved their lives. Shooting to defend is justified, shooting to kill in NOT. The kolkata lady was safe til the police saw the cctv footage. Until she shot in the air and chased away the trespasses it was justified. But her act of entering into every room and blowing of the heads of the security guards is just inhumane.
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by farook » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:15 pm

When we are faced with a situation like this we need to throw away all we have onto the floor away from the attacker. NEVER carry a weapon in you hand purse. Always on you and never open carry it. Once you see the he is busy gathering up his loot from the floor plan what best you can.
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by essdee1972 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Farook, the reasons why I (and many of the SD experts) believe that it's safer to hand over the cash rather than try to do a James Bond / Bruce Lee are a few:

1. He's got his gun ready, you need to take it out of wherever. Unless you are "Quick Gun Murugan", or "Phantom the Ghost Who Walks", it's very doubtful whether you can get the gun out before getting the slug. As Bennedose said, you can't have the gun in your hand while transacting at the ATM. In the normal course, you might be the one reported to the cops for waving around a pistol in/around an ATM!
2. In most cases (not all, of course) muggers are looking for a quick buck. They aren't really Mafiosi looking to leave no witnesses. They know (somewhere in the back of their drug muddled minds) that cops will not really chase them for a robbery as much as they would chase for a murder.
3. I know (and I am sure so do others on this forum) some people who have been in carjacking hotbeds of the world, like West Africa. They came out alive because they stayed calm and handed over the car and whatever else.

It is actually easier for a lady to use a concealed weapon. Keep one in bag, pretend to fumble for your cash or whatever (if you are familiar with a ladies' handbag, you'd know why she has to fumble). Grab the gun and shoot through ther bag. Might ruin a Birkin or Loius Vuitton, but then, she can buy another one. But this requires extreme presence of mind and a chill coldness which very few can achieve.
Cheers!

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by farook » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:47 pm

essdee1972 wrote:Farook, the reasons why I (and many of the SD experts) believe that it's safer to hand over the cash rather than try to do a James Bond / Bruce Lee are a few:

1. He's got his gun ready, you need to take it out of wherever. Unless you are "Quick Gun Murugan", or "Phantom the Ghost Who Walks", it's very doubtful whether you can get the gun out before getting the slug. As Bennedose said, you can't have the gun in your hand while transacting at the ATM. In the normal course, you might be the one reported to the cops for waving around a pistol in/around an ATM!
In case of the atm maybe yes. What you could do is hurl something at the glass to attract attention from the passerby if any. The point I am trying to make here is to gain time to do what you can do rather than be cornered and killed in a minute. The law will not charge you if you fire in self defense. Of course you cannot take out your gun in .03 seconds. What you can do is buy time by throwing all your valuables on the floor away from you can the attacker. Once he is distracted you could work things out. If you youtube a video there is a case of a police officer who stopped a car full of drugs in north america. He walked right to them. Four of them surrounded him took his weapon and killed the 42 year old Sargent. This video was captured by the cameras in their patrol car and used for training. They came up with the strategy that if your in a situation like this the first thing to do is move back five to six feet and then take your weapon out.
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by winnie_the_pooh » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:06 pm

Agree with what essdee says.For a lady to carry a handgun in her bag may not be very wise as bags are an obvious target for snatchers.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by farook » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:50 pm

winnie_the_pooh wrote:Agree with what essdee says.For a lady to carry a handgun in her bag may not be very wise as bags are an obvious target for snatchers.
I say dont carry a weapon in your purse and esddee says carry....
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:16 pm

Very good points of precaution by essdee1972 and others. Yes open carry or carrying handgun in handbag is not a very good idea since handbag itself is sometimes the target of attackers.
Shooting to defend is justified, shooting to kill in NOT.
It depends on the circumstances. Section 100 and 103 IPC allow you to shoot to kill under some circumstances. In this case when the criminal brought down the shutter of ATM, conditions of Section 100 of IPC were very much satisfied. So killing him by any means including shooting was no offense.

Read somewhere that her one side of body is now paralyzed due to injury caused by machete blow to her skull. Better to part with money, it can be earned again but gone life cannot.

Criminals usually succeed by combination of aggression, speed and surprise. This sudden combination usually momentarily stuns the victim from taking a rational decision. If the victims can avoid such situations or outwit them in these areas they may succeed.
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by farook » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:20 pm

The lady is seriously injured. What upsets me more than anything is the two criminals are out free. They choose Andra against Tamil nadu. Cause they know the cops in Tamil nadu are trigger friendly.
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by farook » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:53 pm

Good boy mentor, is there any clause in arms act or arms rule which prohibits us to open carry
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