Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:40 pm

The concept of open carry or conceal carry does not exist under Arms Act or its Rules. You can decide how you want to carry.
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by farook » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:57 pm

goodboy_mentor wrote:The concept of open carry or conceal carry does not exist under Arms Act or its Rules. You can decide how you want to carry.
If a person reports of open carry to the police can the person carring the weapon with his license get into any kind of trouble
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:08 pm

Not possible to report open carry or conceal carry as per law because such provision for open carry or conceal carry does not exist.

Since the other person can see that you are carrying, if you have enmity with someone or someone likes to make false allegations, can file false case that you were threatening etc. with the gun. The police can confiscate your gun. You will have to fight the matter in courts to prove that the case is false. Once you win the case you will get the gun back. All this may give you torturous and humiliating experience.

Since legal guns are so costly in India, person doing open carry can also become target of criminals trying to snatch the gun.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by airgun_novice » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:15 pm

bennedose wrote: Good points.

May I add one?

If the ATM has a shutter that someone can pull down when you are inside, search for another ATM
Many ATMs have shutter to down when the cash is being replenished/ restocked and for the safety of that operation.

Of course, one can always check if the shutter is safely locked above before stepping in, but such precaution is sometimes not feasible or beyond capability of one with untrained eye or in terrible rush.

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by airgun_novice » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:26 pm

bennedose wrote:[SNIP]
Of course one must take precatutions, but the bottom line is that ATMs must be designed to make it inconvenient for a mugger. Helping him by having features that allow him to hide from public view is a mistake. Why not simply have a bolt that a user locks whle he uses it - but the walls should be transparent so others can see what is happening inside. If public toilet doors can have a latch inside while someone is using it, why not an ATM?
Transparent walls will also reveal what numbers are punched in for the PIN and what amount is withdrawn. The client is now an easy picking for the mugger.
What about multiple ATMS in a single "booth" ? Who locks the latch now and who opens it ?

Solutions unlike reactions can not be ad hoc/ knee-jerk in nature. A guard MUST be present 24/7 and restrict the traffic in/ out of the ATM booths. Most ATMs of Mumbai have this procedure. Another good idea could be an EMERGENCY button on the ATM that has its own supplementary power pack and is linked to closest police station/ beat patrol. May be they can add a roll-down auto-lock shutter, yup that might lock the victim and the mugger together but still it will be a safer bet till the cops arrive.

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by bennedose » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:44 pm

airgun_novice wrote: Transparent walls will also reveal what numbers are punched in for the PIN and what amount is withdrawn. The client is now an easy picking for the mugger.
What about multiple ATMS in a single "booth" ? Who locks the latch now and who opens it ?
Actually all ATMs in the UK when I used to live there were out in the open - on the side wall of a bank. No booth. Like this
Image

Most India booths have transparent walls and my Canara Bank ATM specifically advises that people should stand close to the machine and cover the numbers as they are being punched. The guard allows only one person at a time and I had to have an argument to enter with my son the first time he was using an ATM card and I had to show him. In any case if a mugger holds a machete to my neck and asks me to tell him my PIN I will tell him and pray that he knows that there is a Rs 20,000 withdrawal limit per day. Or he may kill me for that. My ATM card is less important than my neck.

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by essdee1972 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:19 am

Sorry, in second thoughts, I take back the gun in handbag scenario. My bad!!

Coming to similar situations, what proportion of Indian civilians (non-criminal, non-political types) are armed or are guarded? 5%? 10%?? For the rest, concealed carry, shoot-to-kill, warning shot, etc. etc. are just words. Moreover, these are words which are understood by a tiny fraction of people like us, who are interested or aware.

What can save your life and limb for the vast majority of unarmed Indians, and also if you are carrying a .50 BMG in your back pocket, is SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.

Smartphones have contributed to the general lack of awareness. If a person isn't aware of a hulking great 1.5 tonne car blasting its horn 2 feet behind them, what awareness would they have of a stealthy criminal out to kill/rob/rape? I had once a young person walk into my perfectly parked car, busy on Whatsapp!!!
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by Vikram » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:34 pm

essdee1972 wrote:SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.
+100!
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by essdee1972 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:16 am

Found this while surfing. Although the experience is mostly foreign (US/Argentina), seems sound advice on the whole.........

http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com/archives/1774
Cheers!

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by snIPer » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:05 pm

Hang him - Public execution.
/S
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by drifter » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:30 pm

Dear Farook,

I am curious by this statement you have made, please elaborate.
farook wrote: They choose Andra against Tamil nadu. Cause they know the cops in Tamil nadu are trigger friendly.
Maybe a good idea to have the ATM booths facing the door that way awareness is greater, right now all ATM booths face the wall with our back at the door.

Regards,
drifter.

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by farook » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:40 am

drifter wrote:Dear Farook,

I am curious by this statement you have made, please elaborate.
farook wrote: They choose Andra against Tamil nadu. Cause they know the cops in Tamil nadu are trigger friendly.
Maybe a good idea to have the ATM booths facing the door that way awareness is greater, right now all ATM booths face the wall with our back at the door.

Regards,
drifter.
Every state police has its own way of dealing with criminals. It happens only in Tamil Nadu ( touch wood ) that you can drive in the middle of a jungle at 11 at night.

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by essdee1972 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:12 pm

And what about the collateral damage? I.e. the "bank robbers" - with emphasis on the quotes?

Even though members of the general public (those same people who consider us "terrorists" because we are interested in guns, knives, and support RKBA) are gung-ho about encounter killings (as they are about everything they can cheer for from their armchairs), I personally cannot support encounter killings.

I might be safe driving in a forest at 11 p.m. in Tamil Nadu, but someone please remind me not to carry my Swiss knife while in Chennai.

As someone said:

It is better that a thousand criminals go free than an innocent man suffer
Cheers!

EssDee
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In a polity, each citizen is to possess his own arms, which are not supplied or owned by the state.Aristotle

Get up, stand up, Stand up for your rights. Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.Bob Marley

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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by farook » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:07 pm

essdee1972 wrote:And what about the collateral damage? I.e. the "bank robbers" - with emphasis on the quotes?

Even though members of the general public (those same people who consider us "terrorists" because we are interested in guns, knives, and support RKBA) are gung-ho about encounter killings (as they are about everything they can cheer for from their armchairs), I personally cannot support encounter killings.

I might be safe driving in a forest at 11 p.m. in Tamil Nadu, but someone please remind me not to carry my Swiss knife while in Chennai.

As someone said:

It is better that a thousand criminals go free than an innocent man suffer
Its the policy of the police, I have no personal opinion about encounter killing as such. But must mention here and am sure most of us would agree that arresting a criminal is pretty much useless. He would be out on bail and back to business the very next day. So what is the solution to this.....
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Re: Woman attacked inside ATM in Bangalore

Post by essdee1972 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:22 pm

Farook, I used to have the same opinion about encounters as you or most Indians, until a cousin of a good friend was "encountered". Poor kid was protesting the beating up of a fellow student by some auto or bus union goons (alongwith other students). Got unlucky to be picked up when the forces of "law and order" bashed up the kids with their bamboo sticks. A few days later, he was shot in an encounter, and surprisingly, illegal guns and stuff recovered from his hostel room!!!!!!

Sitting typing this in an AC room, I can say confidently that the bullet is the only answer, but having known of the above case, I can't give in to the complacency of the general citizen!

Oh heck! This has gone completely OTT!!
Cheers!

EssDee
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In a polity, each citizen is to possess his own arms, which are not supplied or owned by the state.Aristotle

Get up, stand up, Stand up for your rights. Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.Bob Marley

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