Indians For Guns

timmy wrote:

Commonwealth_of_PA wrote:

timmy wrote:This is certainly a misunderstanding. The two most recent states that I've lived in, Maryland and New Jersey, along with others, such as New Mexico (my home state), Texas, Colorado, and Montana, taken all together, there was only one person, in Montana, who I knew carried a firearm, besides myself. For myself, I generally have carried when I take long trips, but never in everyday life.

Timmy, I've got news for you. You've known way more than 1 person that carried a gun in many of those states you lived in

Thanks for the news tip,but you are not addressing the same thing that I said. I said "people that I knew who carried guns," (which was the question) not "people that I knew who might or might not carry guns." I feel reasonably secure in the knowledge of the places I've lived. Undoubtedly, I came across someone somewhere who was carrying a gun that I didn't know about -- just like people who encountered me while I was carrying and didn't know that I was carrying.

If I do not know of my own personal knowledge that someone is carrying, is it not speculation on my part to say that they are, or are not? Not only do I not claim to read minds, I don't have X-ray vision!

LOL, very true

But most of the states you lived in had a high enough percentage of the population carrying that you undoubtedly came across several every single time you wen to the grocery store

Commonwealth_of_PA wrote:LOL, very true

But most of the states you lived in had a high enough percentage of the population carrying that you undoubtedly came across several every single time you wen to the grocery store

I certainly wouldn't want to bet against you on that, but I don't have a way to quantify how many did carry.

Also, there is a misperception, even among Americans, about "The West." New Mexico, for instance doesn't rank highly among "gun friendly" states. It didn't use to issue any concealed permits (though this has changed). However, you could have a gun in your "domicile," and oddly enough, that included your automobile. So, you could have a loaded handgun in your car legally. Also, carrying concealed was only a misdemeanor, so you could carry, and if you were caught, you'd pay a nominal fine. If the cops didn't like you, you might have some trouble getting your gun back.

But with respect to the grocery store, if you were caught with a concealed weapon where alcohol was sold, that was a felony, and you would go to jail and be in big trouble. This meant not only carrying in bars, but in grocery stores where beer was sold.

Coming from Montana, where I had held a concealed carry permit for years (back in the days before it was "fashionable" among gun owners), New Mexico seemed onerous, but after a time, I noted that it fit in with my carry habits pretty well, until we went into Albuquerque for groceries once a month and I had to sit in the car.

timmy wrote:

aadhaulya wrote:I think people carry a gun just because they like the feel of the gun, the destruction it can cause and the gun is totally in their control.

This is the basic idea that I was trying to gather.

Atul, the vagueness of your original post might as well have had a neon sign above it, indicating that you already had an opinion on the subject you were addressing and that you were looking for data that supported your views. Such posts are not uncommon here!.

Tim, I could put a neon sign over most of my posts I actually thought that when some one tries to gather information he already has a preconceived notion on that.
A similar thing is happening on another thread about 'Increasing the Power of an AR". It was not that I got up one morning and decided that I want a very powerful AR and floated the idea around to find out if someone has an idea on how to do it. I had an idea on how it could be done. After that I floated the idea around and as expected, mostly got ideas of why it can't be done, if it could be done it would have been done long ago by some experts etc. But from the suggestions on why it could not be done I have picked up a lot of points that tell me where I was right and where I was wrong in my thinking and there are constant changes in my design accordingly. This I will try to continue till I am satisfied with my basic design. After that would start the phase of testing the ideas. Also, if my experiment eventually works or not is not important to me as my interest in working on new inventions gives me pleasure.

timmy wrote:While I'm sure that your statement might apply to a few, it seems to me to me that it is impossible to accurately know what other people think without collecting data on a specific topic in a scientific way. Even highly trained and highly skilled scientists have great trouble knowing what people think -- just look at the polls of the recent election in the UK. The few people who have a knack for understanding what mass numbers of people are thinking are generally filthy rich. Steve Jobs was a good example of such a type.

As a general observation, I do believe that if people can be trusted with such inherently dangerous things as free speech, voting, driving automobiles, and raising children, they are certainly able to handle the responsibility of owning, carrying, using, and protecting themselves with firearms. I will grant that this is not an expert opinion about what people think. Rather, I think it is a right that belongs to every law-abiding citizen.

On this point I totally agree with you. I have no qualification or experience in collecting accurate data. That is a specialty in itself. Also since this is not my profession but just a hobby, I have no use of accurate data. The only idea was to try and find out if my thinking matches with what others think and here I think that it does but I can be sure only if people are willing to respond to my questions.

Regards

Atul

I do believe that the weapons are required for self defence in India. I suggest the people to carry the self defence tools like guns, knives, pepper spray, batons, sticks and in some case your two hands can also be used for self protection.

harshit89 wrote:I do believe that the weapons are required for self defence in India. I suggest the people to carry the self defence tools like guns, knives, pepper spray, batons, sticks and in some case your two hands can also be used for self protection.

Harshit,

Is this your opinion only?? or is it based on some experience with you or someone you know (Not news paper reports). I carry a gun but I am not sure if I would be able to shoot at any one on a perceived threat (except if my family is threatened). Also instead of two hands I would rather use my feet to get away from an ugly situation.
Most of the criminals carry knives and a knife against a knife carrying criminal would not make sense unless one is capable of a 'dirty street fight' that the opponent is going to play.
Also I would like to add that I have never, in my life faced a situation where I felt the need of a weapon for self defense.
To me carrying a gun for self defense just in case something happens, that has never happened before is not understandable. If I want to be prepared for an eventuality that has never happened but a possibility exists then I would be like carrying bullet proof jacket (if faced by terrorists with automatic weapons), a shovel to dig a narrow trench (in case enemy air crafts start bombing), Gas mask (in case a chemical war breaks out), emergency ration (to survive after the war), flares etc.

Therefore, my point was that I carry a gun because I like the feel of it. And I wanted to know if people carry weapons normally (not extreme cases and interiors), do they do it because they feel good about it or do they actually feel threatened on the streets of Delhi or any other Metro city.

Regards

Atul

aadhaulya wrote:And I wanted to know if people carry weapons normally (not extreme cases and interiors), do they do it because they feel good about it or do they actually feel threatened on the streets of Delhi or any other Metro city.

Regards

Atul

Telling from my personal observation in metro cities. Encountered broadly two types of people, one type who want to possess gun and carry(especially at night or odd times) but the intimidating nature of implementation of Arms Act and high cost of legal guns prevented them. You may also see the following video for comments by such people http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 69&start=0

There are second type who have been brainwashed into believing something that is a lie. They want to wish the risk away. It is very difficult to free them from the chains they revere.

GBM,

This was a very interesting video and actually true. I totally agree that it would be stupid to go out of your house at odd hours or even odd places, without being armed. Even though one may have never required one at these times or places ever before. But my question was directed at a regular carry scene, day or night or even dropping your daughter to school early in the morning etc.

Regards

Atul

He still doesn't carry a gun as he feels he wont be able to shoot at anyone. What happened with him was a unique one off case and doesn't expect it to happen ever again.
I think he is stupid. But that is my personal thinking.

Some people only need exposure to the existence of a threat before they decide to protect themselves.
Some people need to be beat up several times before they decide to fight back and some people will always be victims.
It's just human nature.

XL,

Though I have never been to the USA but I feel that the thinking of the people here and people living there differs. Maybe I can compare it to a spare wheel in a car. Most of us have experienced tyre punctures and the spare wheel came in handy. Now days, with tubeless tyres, fitted on all cars, this situation of having a puncture is almost eliminated. Besides there is road side assistance available for as low as Rs 500 per year that covers all India. So at this age of mine, instead of getting all dirty and changing the spare wheel and then getting it repaired at a roadside shop, I call the helpline and they change the punctured tyre and get it repaired too if you so desire.
But I still carry a spare wheel, jack and tools in the car. If the jack is hard to use I buy one that is easy to use and with less effort, because there is no restriction of any sort and it is easily available.
Therefore, I believe that in the USA gun is a tool that is easily available. And people living there feel that if a tool is available then it should be kept ready for use.
But my question that needs an opinion is that I have never felt the need of a weapon in Delhi at least and no body I know has felt the need for one either. Are there other people like me who do not feel the need to carry.

Regards

Atul

Though I live in Pakistan, I would like to give my opinion. I personally think that one should indeed carry a firearm in metros of India to save oneself from robbery, kidnapping and rape etc. The number of people actually doing this is very low due to more than one reasons. And the biggest reason, in my humble opinion, is that our people (Indo-Pakis) simply don't believe in it. I live in the Sindh province (state) and the Sindh government has banned carrying of firearms for about last four years and you need a carry permit valid for a maximum of six months. The permit can only be made from the provincial capital of Karachi, so the ban is not enforced strictly outside Karachi. But even when this ban was not in place, and the provincial capital had a very high crime rate, very few people bothered to conceal carry a gun. And those who did carry hardly included any middle middle class businessman and prople doing white collar jobs. Almost all of the gun carriers were those carrying for reasons other than ordinary crime, i.e, political activists etc. When asked about carrying a gun, people would say things like: "The criminal is more prepared than you, keeping a gun is useless"; "what is destined to happen will happen". So, I strongly believe even if more Indians had licensed guns and were allowed to carry them, very few would actually do it.

aadhaulya wrote:XL,Therefore, I believe that in the USA gun is a tool that is easily available. And people living there feel that if a tool is available then it should be kept ready for use.

Although the majority of people in the US don't carry, the majority of households do have guns, and a lot of them are kept at the ready. So it still applies, and I think you are right.

Honestly, this is the reason I started to carry. I started thinking about a couple things.

At home, for instance, I live alone with no dog. What good will a gun in the bedroom do me if I answer the door and the person at the door as bad intentions? Am I going to carry a rifle to the door when I answer it? No, I would look like a lunatic. And feel a little like one as well Having grown up in rural areas, and served in the military, I just don't think I could forgive myself if I had arms but was not prepared to use them when confronted with danger.

Also about 10 years ago I started acquiring some serious and expensive hardware. As I leave the range I am thinking, "I have equipment here that I could use to take out an Army squad yet I am walking to my car and driving home unarmed because it is packed away. What good would it do me if somebody decided to take it from me?"

So it wasn't the fear of danger for me, it was the fear of regret of having arms and yet being foolish and not bearing arms if the need were to present itself.

Once I started carrying I took it more seriously, though. I've also participated in some fairly extensive training on use of handguns in fighting under civilian self defense scenarios. So my mindset has changed to one of self defense.

But initially, it was as you say. I have tools available, might as well keep them ready.

Commonwealth_of_PA wrote:Women are the fastest growing group of carriers in the USA and they do not ask their fathers for permission

we like to respect and seek advice from older people as they have wisdom

I think keeping a firearm for protection is a practical choice. The confidence it gives for the safety of the family is great. There are many places in this fair country of ours that make keeping a firearm handy desirable. Not a case of looking for a nail to hammer. Rather, it is a case of keeping an insurance just in case.

nagarifle wrote:

Commonwealth_of_PA wrote:Women are the fastest growing group of carriers in the USA and they do not ask their fathers for permission

we like to respect and seek advice from older people as they have wisdom

I agree completely. I consider that completely separate from a woman needing approval from any man to arm herself.

aadhaulya wrote:

harshit89 wrote:I do believe that the weapons are required for self defence in India. I suggest the people to carry the self defence tools like guns, knives, pepper spray, batons, sticks and in some case your two hands can also be used for self protection.

Harshit,

Is this your opinion only?? or is it based on some experience with you or someone you know (Not news paper reports). I carry a gun but I am not sure if I would be able to shoot at any one on a perceived threat (except if my family is threatened). Also instead of two hands I would rather use my feet to get away from an ugly situation.
Most of the criminals carry knives and a knife against a knife carrying criminal would not make sense unless one is capable of a 'dirty street fight' that the opponent is going to play.
Also I would like to add that I have never, in my life faced a situation where I felt the need of a weapon for self defense.
To me carrying a gun for self defense just in case something happens, that has never happened before is not understandable. If I want to be prepared for an eventuality that has never happened but a possibility exists then I would be like carrying bullet proof jacket (if faced by terrorists with automatic weapons), a shovel to dig a narrow trench (in case enemy air crafts start bombing), Gas mask (in case a chemical war breaks out), emergency ration (to survive after the war), flares etc.

Therefore, my point was that I carry a gun because I like the feel of it. And I wanted to know if people carry weapons normally (not extreme cases and interiors), do they do it because they feel good about it or do they actually feel threatened on the streets of Delhi or any other Metro city.

Regards

Atul

Hello Atul,

I agree with you on that case. The self defence weapons you should carry along with your for your outdoors should be such that you are comfortable in carrying it. And not like that you are carrying it forcefully due to some threat and if you are not comfortable in carrying them, then there might be no used of them as you can't deploy it at the time if any emergencies.

I have never faced a situation like that when I need to mess up with some burgler or thief. I carry a folding knife and gun for my outdoors but really never had the chance to use them.

One more thing I want to bring to your notice that self defence weapons are carried by the people who wish to carry them.