Removing the primer from a live round.

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Jeet3
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Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by Jeet3 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:39 pm

Greetings IFGians.

I wanted to know if anyone can post a lesson on removing the primer of a live round. Although I won't be attempting this stunt because I am over cautious with my firearms, I just wanted to know how do people do that!?

Thanks guys. :D

Jeet

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by Vikram » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:34 am

Step 1: Load the live round in an appropriate firearm.

Step 2: Fire the said firearm in a safe direction with appropriate backstop.

Step 3: Extract the fired round.

Step 4 : Knock the primer out.

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by timmy » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:50 am

I don't know how you are going to do it in a way that will save the primer. You can get one of these:

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and pull the bullet -- I have used one of these with 1000s of rounds. The whack you must give it can be surprising, if the bullet is firmly crimped. The bullet and the powder will come out. You can use the bullet -- it is fine. The powder must be thrown out. Never use powder that doesn't come out of the correctly labeled can. (Only a fool would do otherwise. I still recall the bolt from a 788 Remington -- a strong action -- that had all 9 locking lugs and the bolt handle sheared off from a fool who didn't use the right powder. The bolt exited both the gun and his head. He did live, but it tore up his mouth and head badly, so I heard. There's no help for those types!)

The primer is a problem. You don't say what kind of cartridge it is, specifically whether it is Boxer or Berdan primed. In either case, you must discharge the primer and the only way I can think of is by firing in a gun. Since the primer is the most corrosive part of the round, you must still clean the weapon just as if you had fired a live round in it. Then, you have to get the primer out. If it is a Boxer primer, you have to either use a reloading press decapper or a nail or rod that will fit through the flash hole at the base of the case. If it is a Berdan primer, you have to buy the special Berdan decapping tool:

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or try the hydraulic method to get the spent primer out.

There is no way to save the primer, once it is seated in the case. You might be able to be able to deactivate it with oil or something else, but you won't know whether it is deactivated until you try to discharge it, so there's no point in going that route. If you think you have deactivated it and poke it with a decapping pin, or pierce it with a decapping tool (if it's a Berdan primer), it could go off, with disastrous results to you! There is no way to know, unless you discharge it with a firearm. Primers are nothing to be fooling around with.

As you can see, this is a lot of trouble to go to in order to save a bullet, vs. Vikram's suggestion. One way or the other, the primer cannot be salvaged.
Regards,
tim

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by Jeet3 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:10 am

Come on guys I mean't having a live primer at the end of the process. May be I can just pick up a box of primers by themselves at Bass Pro. Yeah, I'll do that. Just needed to learn more about cartridges as I have some books that have a lot of questions already answered in them. Thanks Vikram and Tim!
Jeet

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by timmy » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:09 am

Jeet, I believe your question was answered: you can't have a live primer at the end of the process. I don't know what you are reading, but primers are not something to be used for performing impromptu science experiments. They are dangerous and messing with them is a good way to end up looking like Long John Silver. There are a number of different kinds of primers. Read some books on reloading before messing around with reloading components. If you are using primers for any other purpose besides what they are intended for, or using them in ways that are not in keeping with proper reloading practice, IFG is not responsible for what may happen. You should be aware that primers are not toys, they are small explosive devices set off by percussion. Not knowing what you are doing is a good path to unexpected body modifications.

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Regards,
tim

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by Jeet3 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:52 am

Tim. I am an extremely responsible person as far as firearms is concerned. I need not prove that here or anywhere because I was once destined for the National Defense Academy at Khadakwasla in India for the Indian Air Force and as per my training at a Military School in Nashik India, we were taught how dangerous firearms and ammunition can be. I keep an unloaded pistol under my pillow just so that it does not discharge in case I move my head Tim.
The reason why I asked you this question is that whether it was possible to remove a live primer from ammo without discharging it, hmm? I have fired over 1500 rounds of ammo at the army school that I had studied at between 1977 - 1981. When I carry any live ammo at home or anywhere, I wrap it all in towels or such so that in case the package falls it wont discharge anything.

Experimenting with firearms is the only thing I personally would never end up doing ever, no matter what kind of firearm it is which includes airguns and or guns that simply go bang (blank firing guns one of which I had and when I fired it I prayed for almost two hours because of the sound it made).

Tim. Believe in me my friend. I am a safe handler of firearms and a very responsible gun owner. Please view my post on Facebook...here's my past posts among which a specific quote I had stated for gun safety... https://www.facebook.com/abhijit.naik.58

Hope you will understand me better.

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by timmy » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:27 am

Jeet, settle down, bro!

The point is not how much ammunition you have handled or fired. Nor is it necessary to wrap live ammo in towels. Keeping an unloaded pistol under your pillow is neither safe or unsafe, but you could store it in a better place, since if is not loaded, it's not going to be of much immediate use to you.

Secondly, I understand that you were asking if a live primer can be removed safely. Both Vikram and I told you no, it cannot be removed safely.

Thirdly, handling live primers is not the same as handling live ammunition, and

Fourthly, the only possible reason you would need or should have live primers is for reloading, and to do that you should have the right equipment and knowledge.

Fifthly, I don't know whether you are intending to use live primers for their proper intended purpose or not, nor do I know whether or not you have the right knowledge and equipment to use them for that one proper purpose. My point is that if you don't have the right purpose, knowledge, and/or equipment to use live primers, if something bad happens, IFG is not responsible.
Regards,
tim

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by Jeet3 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:40 am

Thanks Tim. Ofcourse IFG is just a site for knowledge exchange, not for confirming any theories.

Yet, I know I am on the right site with the right people with the best knowledge about F&A's.

Thanks a mil for your responses Tim and Vikram.

God Speed!
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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by farook » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:08 am

Though the odds are rare that the primer may be hit, a bullet particularly a heavy one would discharge if dropped from a reasonable height. Further it is not recommended that you try to fire a bullet if the primer has the slightest of dents. It would discharge in way you don't want it to.....

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by TwoRivers » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:25 pm

Jeet3: By now you probably realize that there is no sane way to get a live primer from loaded ammo, just to have a primer. Much safer, if you your heart is set upon having a primer, is to buy a packet, and flush 99. Now, how NOT to do it.

1. The American Rifleman used to run a "In my experience..." column. One started "I have a Ph.D..." and related how his teenage son wanted an undented primer cup. So the father, Ph.D. obliged, held an empty primed case with pliers, and the flame of a blowtorch against the primer. At the emergency room, after X-rays, he was told that he would have to live with the primer cup in his arm, since it lodged too close to arteries to be safely removed. Lucky man.

2. Many years ago, I was visiting with one of my gun dealer friends in Kabul's bazaar when a young Pathan sauntered by, stopped, and inquired if the fellow would reprime some cartridges for him. Upon agreement he produced eight solid brass .577/.450 Martini cartridges, not empty cases, ...without primers. When asked how that had happened, he explained that they had misfired, and he had holed and pried the primers out with an awl.Those old primers really were DEAD. Needless to say he was refused service and left rather unhappily.

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by TwoRivers » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:03 pm

[quote="farook"] It would discharge in way you don't want it to.....

How many different ways can a cartridge (bullet?) discharge?

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by farook » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:32 pm

How many different ways can a bullet discharge
Was referring to the video at 3:38
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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by Jeet3 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:40 pm

Farook. That was one video I had watched last week and even before that I have been a safe handler of all of my firearms and ammo. For all I know, I wouldn't want to drop a cartridge on the carpet of my home. I never leave my guns loaded in the breach because that too can be hazardous if the gun accidentally drops and discharges. If I have to eject a round from the gun for cleaning etc. purposes, I do so on the bed so the round cleanly drops on the bed and not on the floor.

TwoRivers, I have also read some articles online about how to store ammo for carrying to the range in order to make them safe for carrying. For instance the temperature in which I will be traveling. If it's going to be 100 degrees F OAT I usually place the ammo in a cool case or such in order for the ammo to stay cool and safe.

I know how dangerous unsafe handling of any such thing can be. Once a gun or ammo discharges, that's it. There is no correction left to be considered.

You guys are simply the best and I am proud to be part of this community. --- GOD SPEED

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by timmy » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:02 pm

Jeet3 wrote:I have also read some articles online about how to store ammo for carrying to the range in order to make them safe for carrying. For instance the temperature in which I will be traveling. If it's going to be 100 degrees F OAT I usually place the ammo in a cool case or such in order for the ammo to stay cool and safe.

I know how dangerous unsafe handling of any such thing can be. Once a gun or ammo discharges, that's it. There is no correction left to be considered.
Jeet, what people are repeatedly trying to point out is that a live primer is much more dangerous and much more prone to accidental discharge than a live cartridge. Your desire to have one or more live primers for some unstated purpose (it does not appear that you reload) makes knowledgable members here nervous about your intentions. However, you never address just what it is that you want an unspent primer for.

Even ammunition that is well-known for being of poor quality and questionable performance is carried safely in the hottest deserts of the world with no problem. Still, if you want to pack a cooler or refrigerator around with you to carry ammo, that is your business. You can even move to Antarctica if you wish, and members here will only view you as eccentric.

What is at issue is your stated intention of obtaining live primers. They are dangerous. Your repented protestations of how you are trained in the use and handling of guns and ammo and your odd methods of handling them and your stated idea that the safest place for an unloaded gun is under your pillow isn't the issue, but your constant dodging of the issue of live primers with talk that clearly shows you are new to guns and gun handling is very worrisome.

THE ISSUE IS YOUR INTENTION TO OBTAIN, PURPOSE FOR OBTAINING, AND HANDLING OF LIVE PRIMERS!!!

All of your other lengthy talk about your great training, reading, extensive handling of ammo only makes us think you are trying to conceal what we're worried about: the live primers!, your purpose for wanting them, and your handling of them. Is this, hopefully clear to you now? Please don't skirt the issue by trying to bury us with senseless talk. We are concerned about the live primers!!!!
Regards,
tim

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Re: Removing the primer from a live round.

Post by farook » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:08 pm

Well I am curious too, why do you want to remove the primers out of live ammo...why not just buy them separately..
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