IFG Members support for RKBA PIL

[jayanta mukherjee]

Dear friends,
Sorry for the long absence. Well since we are treading in the right direction I say a definite YES to the process.
But at the same time I have certain reservations which I would like to share with you:-

1. The first thing which obviously comes to my mind is that, as rightly pointed out by Abhijeet, is that the Hon'ble Courts are not law makers but they only interpretate the provisions of law. So at the most we can expect that courts may direct the Union of India to consider the EXIM policy.

2. As rightly pointed out by Abhijeet once again we need to convince the members of the Standing Committee of Home Affairs and the Ministry of Commerce and a good lobbying is indeed needed there.
I would further like to state here that it is equally important that one should also try to convince our law makers because if the PIL is entertained then the Hon'ble Court is going to issue notice to the UOI about its stance.

3. By tagging in the aspect of easy licencing policy alongwith the challenging the import ban of arms in the same PIL we would be opening the doors to anti gun lobby which would then be a real pain in the wrong place, as it is a lobby to recon with, having probably more clout and financial might, as they will try to implead themselves as necessary parties in the PIL.

We should have a systematic approach to the problem, and firstly try to get the import ban off and then try to approach the courts for changing the notion of the police department that income cannot be the sole criterion for eligibility of licence. Good antecedents alone are the sole criterion. since it entirely depends upon the discretion of the police whether an individual is eligible for licence it is almost certain that the courts would not issue a blanket order regarding easy licencing procedure. So I would suggest that any individual whose licence has been turned down on the ground of income criterion or/ and having already owning a firearm licence should approach the Court first and then if we pull in to get his same I can promise you that we would have a precedent or ratio for the others following.

Any criticism or a analysis is highly solicited.
Cheers
Jayanta Mukherjee

[Rottmeister]

Thanks for agreeing with me Jayanta; first, it's the registered, NRAI affliated shooting club members who must be alowed to import. This is going to pave the path for further developments. Is it possible to meet you in person, anyway?

[mundaire]

Going OT but I thought should point out everyone here to Section 14 (2) of the Arms Act which states clearly:

"The licensing authority shall not refuse to grant any license to any person merely on the ground that such person does not own or possess sufficient property."

Therefore any licensing authority, anywhere in India which demands income/ property proof to back up an arms license application, is doing so in direct contravention of the law. In such cases, the applicant can appeal the decision/ take the matter to court. However, the authorities very well know that only a minuscule number of applicants will actually take the trouble to do so....

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Rottmeister]

Abhijeet, I was told by the Arms Cell that "....one who doesn't earn 25K or more a month is not granted a license." Can this be taken to the court?

[mundaire]

Abhijeet, I was told by the Arms Cell that "....one who doesn't earn 25K or more a month is not granted a license." Can this be taken to the court?

You can, but do you have the reason for rejection given to you in writing? If not then obtain it first... then you can take them to court.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[cottage cheese]

...once you have obtained it in written, make those pompous ignorant half-arses squirm.

[Rottmeister]

I doubt if they'll give it in written; I think they have that much of brains.

[jayanta mukherjee]

Is it possible to meet you in person, anyway?

Surely am going to be in town this Thursday. So surely we can catch up.
Rottlord, if they are refusing to give it to you in writing then you should take it up through RTI. Infact I would suggest to you that if they are taking much long time then you should invoke the writ jurisdiction and approach the Hon'ble High Court at Calcutta under Article 226 of the Constitution of India.

[SURFACE TO AIR MISSILE]

Guys,click on the following webpage link,quite a interesting one !

http://74.125.93.132/search?hl=en&q=cac ... f&oq=&aqi=#


SAM

[ravi.sharma]

Hello everyone,

Do you still think, you dont need to fight for RKBA, then at least do as guided in the Video for your safety.

[youtube][/youtube]


Ravi

[goodboy_mentor]

We should have a systematic approach to the problem, and firstly try to get the import ban off and then try to approach the courts for changing the notion of the police department that income cannot be the sole criterion for eligibility of licence. Good antecedents alone are the sole criterion. since it entirely depends upon the discretion of the police whether an individual is eligible for licence it is almost certain that the courts would not issue a blanket order regarding easy licencing procedure. So I would suggest that any individual whose licence has been turned down on the ground of income criterion or/ and having already owning a firearm licence should approach the Court first and then if we pull in to get his same I can promise you that we would have a precedent or ratio for the others following.

I fully agree with with above opinion of Jayanta Mukherjee. I believe following clauses of Arms Act cause the problem:
CHAPTER III - PROVISIONS RELATING TO LICENCES
13. Grant of licences
:
(2) On receipt of an application, the licensing authority, after making such inquiry, if any, as it may consider necessary, shall, subject to the other provisions of this Chapter, by order in writing either grant the licence or refuse to grant the same.
:
14. Refusal of licences
(i) where such licence is required by a person whom the licensing authority has reason to believe---
(1) to be prohibited by this Act or by any other law for the time being in force from acquiring, having in his possession or carrying any arms or ammunition, or
(2) to be of unsound mind, or
(3) to be for any reason unfit for a licence under this Act; or
(ii) where the licensing authority deems it necessary for the security of the public peace or for public safety to refuse to grant such licence.

So the loose clauses/terms in Arms Act that keep the applicants at the mercy of licensing authority to get firearm license:
1)"Inquiry" - Recommendation of inquiry can be anything(time for completion of inquiry is another pain)
2)"Reason to believe" - A loose term, can be any reason based on personal perception of licensing authority.
3)"Any reason" - Another loose term, can be any reason based on personal perception of licensing authority.
4)"Public peace"/"Public safety" - Another loose term/excuse open to be interpreted as per personal perception of licensing authority.

I believe these loose terms "Inquiry", "Reason to believe", "Any reason", "Public peace"/"Public safety" need to go. A person can be a danger to "Public peace"/"Public safety" only when he is insane or is a proclaimed offender(means he is evading the due process of law). Those who are real danger to public peace/safety, are not dependent on licensing authority for getting arms licenses. They have their own ways and means to get much better firearms at a much cheaper cost. Our Hon'ble Home Minister has publicly accepted this fact: http://www.ptinews.com/news/345543_Maoi ... hidambaram

The fight has to be in a systematic, organized way, with lot of supporters in every section and level of society. One idea I can think of is, we can have a particular section in this website, were people facing difficulties in obtaining firearm license and willing to support the cause, can write their problems. After we get large number of people facing difficulty in obtaining license, a PIL is filed in any High Court, to ask government to reconsider the law, to make it very specific, leaving no room for individuals in Licensing Authority to implement Arms Act as per their personal ideas.

Any ideas about legal feasibility and other acceptable ways/means to convince the government to see the reality are welcome.

[captrakshitsharma]

yesssssssssss and i can say it a thousand times.... and then again

[goodboy_mentor]

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7731

[ravi.sharma]

Hi GBM,

As it is famous, In India, Before making or implementing ONE rule, 100 ways are kept in mind to Break / Bend it, the loose points in the ARMS ACT are very good example of the same . The suggestion by you to dedicate a section for Liecensing problem seems to be a good idea, lets see what the MODS have to say about it.


Ravi.

[eternalme]

I sent a letter to the ministery of home affairs regarding changing the policy.
Received a letter from the under secretary , govt of India regarding the same stating that your Request will be considered as and when the law is revised.

Another letter gone in the thik big files for getting dust.