chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Discussions on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by goodboy_mentor » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:25 pm

Please refer http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12472 Dr. Jayakumar is looking for various relevant pieces of information before filing writ. If anyone has specific information, that would probably help him.
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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by indiaone » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:19 am

Dear Dr Jaykumar,
As far as I recollect from what appeared in the media at that time the following were the reasons for imposing the restriction on the import of the firearms :-
Immediately after operation Bluestar which was followed in a few months by the assassination of Smt Indira Gandhi a review was made regarding how so many firearms got into the hands of extremists in Punjab. At that time the import policy allowed import of NP fire arms by returning NRIs, who were allowed to sale the same after a period of five years. Similarly, there was another provision by which NRIs could send firearms as gifts to their immediate relatives.In the second case, the relative could sale or transfer the arms after a period of 5 years, if I recollect correctly.
One should also remember that during this period there was serious unrest in the State of Punjab. The government came to the conclusion that the provisions in the Import Rules relating to firearms has been misused and in the process a large number of small arms have fallen into the hands of extremist elements.
Accordingly, the Import regulations were amended and certain restriction were imposed on importation of firearms.At present, it has to be in the possession of the returning Indian for a period of one year and it cannot be transferred or sold during the lifetime of the imported. Secondly , the provision relating to gifting of firearms by relatives resident abroad was totally banned.
Hope the above information will be of use to you.In case you need material for arguing the writ petition do feel free to pm me.
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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by boris » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:35 am

seeing to what india-one has written here is something dr. jayakumar can use_

1)if you see the insurgents mainly had light machine guns,assault rifles,anti-tank mines etc.The import law at that time still cannot allow such weapons to land through proper legal methods.

2)an insurgent to defend or counter-attack an enemy force will never use a NPB calibre weapon not even a pistol even in 26/11 terrorists were armed with pistols which actually are a sidearm for elite SF units were last resorts for them in case their AK-47 ammo ran out.for a terrorist his main weapon no matter against whom,no matter at what range,what circumstance is always his rifle/SMG/LMG but never a pistol no matter what caliber.

3)a pistol which is the only weapon a civilian has access to has a range of 30-35 m even at those high ranges the bullet has lost a lot of kinetic energy and a terrorist in most cases always wants his range to be beyond that he will always employ the tactic of statying at one point shoot,take cover and move backwards to be at a safe distance from army forces.which means again for him using even the best imported pistol is useless he will prefer an FN-FAL over a glock 17 anytime.

4)the most important agenda for a terrorist is to cause maximum damage for which the AK is the best weapon he can get he will always laugh on the idea that an imported pistol will do great for him.mostly when his ammo for the AK ends and use of his pistol starts he knows his game is up and thats what he was trained for cause mayhem and die eventually.

looking at those points stopping imports citing terrorists as the reason is sick.just as sick as the govt. IOF's weapons for the soldiers.

hope i could help
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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by goodboy_mentor » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:04 am

looking at those points stopping imports citing terrorists as the reason is sick.
I agree, non of the insurgents/terrorists ever cared or will ever care to apply for an "arms license" and then legally "import" weapons. They simply smuggle in any kind of weapons they desire from across the borders. Maoists are said to be also manufacturing weapons of their choice within India in their clandestine factories. Moreover insurgents/terrorists prefer to do bomb blasts instead of using firearms. Use of bombs allow them to escape from the scene well in advance before the blast takes place. The real unofficial purpose seems to protect IOF from competition by restricting imports under the excuse of insurgency/terrorism etc. I list some of the incidents where bombs were used as primary tools for offense:

September 13, 2008: At least 15 killed and over 110 injured in five blasts across New Delhi.

July 26, 2008: 29 killed and over 100 injured in 17 serial bomb blasts in Ahmadabad.

July 25, 2008: At least two killed and 20 injured in eight low-intensity blasts in Bangalore.

May 13, 2008: At least 63 were killed in nine bomb blasts in Jaipur.

August 25, 2007: At least 42 people were killed in two blasts in Hyderabad's Lumbini park and a restaurant.

May 18, 2007: At least 13 were killed in the bombing at Mecca Masjid, Hyderabad, which took place during Friday prayers.

September 8, 2006: Over 37 killed and 125 injured in a series of bomb blasts in the vicinity of a mosque in Malegaon, Maharashtra.

July 11, 2006: Over 200 killed in a series of seven blasts in Mumbai local trains.

March 7, 2006: At least 21 killed in three attacks in Varanasi in Shri Sankatmochan Mandir and Cantonment Railway Station.

October 29, 2005: Three powerful serial blasts in New Delhi just two days before Diwali. About 70 people died.

August 15, 2004: 16 killed in explosions in Assam. Most of them were schoolchildren.

August 25, 2003: Simultaneous car bombs in Mumbai kill 52

May 14, 2003: Terrorists suicide attack an army camp near Jammu, killing more than 30, including women and children.

March 13, 2003: A bomb attack on a train in Mumbai kills 11.

September 24, 2002: Terrorists suicide attack the Akshardham temple in Gujarat. 31 dead.

December 13, 2001: Terrorists suicide attack parliament complex in New Delhi killing seven security personnel.

October 1, 2001: Suicide attack on J&K assembly complex kills around 35.

February 14, 1998: Blasts in Coimbatore kill 46.

March 12, 1993: 257 die in Mumbai serial blasts.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by boris » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:53 am

goodboy_mentor wrote:
looking at those points stopping imports citing terrorists as the reason is sick.
I agree, non of the insurgents/terrorists ever cared or will ever care to apply for an "arms license" and then legally "import" weapons. They simply smuggle in any kind of weapons they desire from across the borders. Maoists are said to be also manufacturing weapons of their choice within India in their clandestine factories. Moreover insurgents/terrorists prefer to do bomb blasts instead of using firearms. Use of bombs allow them to escape from the scene well in advance before the blast takes place. The real unofficial purpose seems to protect IOF from competition by restricting imports under the excuse of insurgency/terrorism etc. I list some of the incidents where bombs were used as primary tools for offense:

September 13, 2008: At least 15 killed and over 110 injured in five blasts across New Delhi.

July 26, 2008: 29 killed and over 100 injured in 17 serial bomb blasts in Ahmadabad.

July 25, 2008: At least two killed and 20 injured in eight low-intensity blasts in Bangalore.

May 13, 2008: At least 63 were killed in nine bomb blasts in Jaipur.

August 25, 2007: At least 42 people were killed in two blasts in Hyderabad's Lumbini park and a restaurant.

May 18, 2007: At least 13 were killed in the bombing at Mecca Masjid, Hyderabad, which took place during Friday prayers.

September 8, 2006: Over 37 killed and 125 injured in a series of bomb blasts in the vicinity of a mosque in Malegaon, Maharashtra.

July 11, 2006: Over 200 killed in a series of seven blasts in Mumbai local trains.

March 7, 2006: At least 21 killed in three attacks in Varanasi in Shri Sankatmochan Mandir and Cantonment Railway Station.

October 29, 2005: Three powerful serial blasts in New Delhi just two days before Diwali. About 70 people died.

August 15, 2004: 16 killed in explosions in Assam. Most of them were schoolchildren.

August 25, 2003: Simultaneous car bombs in Mumbai kill 52

May 14, 2003: Terrorists suicide attack an army camp near Jammu, killing more than 30, including women and children.

March 13, 2003: A bomb attack on a train in Mumbai kills 11.

September 24, 2002: Terrorists suicide attack the Akshardham temple in Gujarat. 31 dead.

December 13, 2001: Terrorists suicide attack parliament complex in New Delhi killing seven security personnel.

October 1, 2001: Suicide attack on J&K assembly complex kills around 35.

February 14, 1998: Blasts in Coimbatore kill 46.

March 12, 1993: 257 die in Mumbai serial blasts.
IOF protection is the issue then i bet all army chaps might be laughing at this,pistol imports will hardly affect IOF.

what i deduce is what is done with imported cars/bikes that you import them you get 100-200% duty do the same for NPB/PB pistols ,revolvers,shotguns put 200% duty on them and then put appropriate local taxes.firstly imported arms dont have those exorbitant prices that they have now and still they are expensive than IOF civilian arms which still leaves civilian market open.

the indira gandhi assasination makes me think that the politicians are scared of assasination from public civilians with these imported arms hence these bans and horrible licensing laws so i think its this that prompts them to do all this.

my point of view nothing more than that,its a democracy after all
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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by indiaone » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:57 pm

In the prevailing situation in India today, with a favorable foreign exchange position and with the opening up of the economy, the concept of total ban on the import of firearms is perhaps totally out of place.
It has to be noted that the State has not yet banned the people of India from holding firearms. Licenses are still issued despite various types of impediments. The license holders are free to hold and use firearms classified under NPB, irrespective of whether it is imported or Indian.
Perhaps the idea of the Government while imposing the ban was to prevent proliferation of small arms in the society. Now let us see what the situation today is. Every day the media is full of reports if crime committed with firearms. There has been widespread smuggling of firearms ranging from Ak-47 rifles to .30 pistols. In addition in most of the States, there are number of illegal factories turning out country made firearms. Some of them the exact copy of well known foreign brands. Thus there is easy accessibility to firearms for criminals both big and small. On slightest resistance shown by the victims of crime, these criminals have no hesitation to open fire and kill innocent people. Very few of these offences are committed by license holders of firearms with their licensed firearms.
From the reasons indicated above, it is quite evident that imposition of import restrictions on firearms has in no way prevented the proliferation of firearms. Its only benefit has gone in favor of armed criminals as mostly they go away unchallenged from the scene of the crime, as the onlookers are the unarmed law abiding members of the public.
Very often we hear of serious crimes committed on working women in the very heart of our great metropolitan cities. Robbery, dacoits and snatching are common every day occurrences, widely published in the media. No nation in the world can provide armed policemen at every place 24 x 7 to ensure the security of their citizen. The public also has a duty to extend support to the Government in the protection of the life and property of the fellow citizens.
Therfore,it is desirable that certain responsible citizens are allowed to have arms to protect themselves as well as other fellow citizens and also the property of the citizens. Recognizing this duty and right of the citizen ample legal provisions have been made in the Indian Penal Code ( Sec-96 to Sec-106 ).However, the use of these rights have been restricted by the ban on import of arms as well as by making issue of arms license more and more difficult in a number of States.
With the introduction of liberalization in the Indian economic scene, it is perhaps appropriate that NPB firearms are allowed to be imported by the arms dealers on payment of customs and import duty for sale to the license holders.To ensure that the citizens get these items at a reasonable price, their can be a MRP for each make and model of arms.
Alternatively, for ensuring an healthy competition, several PSUs including different Ordinance factories should be allowed to start licensed production of pistols and revolvers. This will ensure better quality product and a competitive pricing.
The above are some of the points which can be included in the writ petition that is being planned to challenge the existing restrictions and regulations.

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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by ebenezer » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:40 pm

A 2007 article in HT

Veenu Sandhu and Ravi Bajpai , Hindustan Times
Email Author
New Delhi, July 22, 2007
First Published: 01:05 IST(22/7/2007)
Last Updated: 04:51 IST(22/7/2007)
Gunning for change
Last year, when Delhi-based businessman Aman Dhamija managed to get a gun licence after months of running around, he couldn’t believe his luck. Given the tedious gun licence procurement procedure, he was almost certain that his request would be turned down. Seven months on, the man who has got both the licence and the gun, is still frustrated.

“In the last seven months, I have taken the weapon to the workshop three times,” rues Dhamija. “And it’s supposed to be one of the better guns,” he says.

As the owner of a firearm, Dhamija might be an exception in a country where gun laws are, to say the least, strict. But as a frustrated licence-holder saddled with a poor quality gun, he is no exception.

“India produces the shoddiest guns in the world and sells them at ridiculously high rates,” says Swaran Singh, who owns an arms repair workshop in Jalandhar. “Every gun which comes out of the factories in Jammu or Bihar or the ordnance factories in Kolkata and Kanpur has a problem,” he says. Guns manufactured by the ordnance are marginally better, adds Singh, who repairs at least 25 new guns manufactured in Indian factories every month.

Given the obsolete gun laws and the government’s monopoly over the sector, licence-holders say they have no choice but to make do with these outdated, crude-finish weapons.

Chinks in the armour

However, private licence-holders aren’t the only ones complaining. Forced to cope with weapons considered virtually obsolete in the international market, armymen are also saying it would be wiser to allow private players to manufacture arms and ammunition. “The government monopoly would break, the quality of weapons would improve and prices would fall,” says an official at the Army Headquarters. Besides producing defective weapons, the ordinance factories also do not meet delivery deadlines, says an official.

Over the years, the army has moved from the 7.62 mm self-loading rifle to the next generation Indian National Small Arms System (INSAS). But this 5.56 mm assault rifle is also known to develop major defects like cold arrest, breakage and cracking of components in strategic areas like the Siachen Glacier, Kargil and other high altitude areas, senior army officials say. Such defects were seen even during the critical Kargil conflict. The government was then forced to allow the import of one lakh AK-47 assault rifles from Romania at a cost of Rs 85 crore.

Today, the army uses INSAS, plus sector-specific imported weapons such as the AK-47 rifles in strife-torn areas. “Though the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has tried to replicate the weapons India imports, the metal used for the indigenous production is of very poor quality,” says a serving colonel.

It is little wonder that the National Security Guards, para-commandos, senior police officials and those on VIP and VVIP security duties do not rely on Indian weapons, says a high-ranking police official. “They need to carry lighter weapons that offer greater manoeuverability and accuracy. Indian weapons do not meet these requirements,” says a senior official of a para-commando regiment.

Shooting in the dark

This is precisely the reason why no shooter worth his salt is ever seen using an Indian weapon, says skeet shooter Baba PS Sodhi. But then, import of foreign-made weapons was banned in 1986. Today, only national-level shooters who strike a minimum-qualification score are allowed to import weapons duty-free.

“It’s a Catch-22 situation. Unless you’re a great shooter, you cannot import a weapon. But to be a great shooter, you need to practise on an imported weapon,” says Baljeet Singh Sethi, secretary general, National Rifle Association of India (NRAI).

Earlier, only the top 10 shooters in each category were allowed to import weapons duty free. In 2001, this privilege was extended to the top 25 shooters. “Now, on paper, the government has extended the sanction to all national-level shooters who manage a minimum score,” says Sethi. NRAI, he adds, has always been against the ban.

Black side of the ban

“It’s easier and far cheaper to get a gun in the black market than the legal way,” says a dealer. While the illicit arms trade is almost absent in Delhi, it’s flourishing in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, police officers admit. The number of illegal guns in circulation is several times the number of licensed weapons, dealers say. And these include imported weapons. Only, the person should be willing to pay lakhs for a foreign-made gun that would have cost just about Rs 35,000 if its import were legalised.

“If the government charged three times the price of the gun as import duty, it would still cost the licence-holder less. Besides, the gun would then be registered with the authorities,” says Jagdeep Singh Lalli, a farmer-cum-gun collector from Jalandhar. As of now, 10 to 25-year-old imported guns are in circulation in the black market. And these are still better than new, frustratingly expensive Indian guns, dealers say. “An Indian gun that costs Rs 60,000 does not even sell for Rs 6,000 in the international market,” says Lalli. “And its quality is worse than that of a 1960-make imported gun,” he adds.

Says Delhi-based gun-dealer KK Sharma, “Keeping a check on crime has been the government’s flawed reasoning for banning the import of weapons.” But the police also admit that licensed guns are seldom used to commit crimes. “Illicit firearms are used in a chunk of crimes like robbery, theft, dacoity, or murder,” says an officer. In comparison, licensed firearms are mostly used in suicides or crimes of passion.

In 2005, 5,643 people were killed with the help of firearms in the country. Of these, 90 per cent fell

to bullets fired from unlicensed weapons. The Jessica Lall

and Pramod Mahajan murders, were, however, committed with licensed weapons.

Right to arms?

It’s cases such as these that have the police becoming more and more stingy with gun licences.

Ridhima Mehra recounts the ordeal she went through trying to get a licence for her late father’s gun. “Even though my husband is a senior

government official, I had a tough time,” she says. Now that she has finally got the permission to keep the gun, she cannot buy the bullets that go into it. “We don’t have a licence for the bullets,” she says. And so, the gun is now sitting in the locker with Mehra’s jewellery.

“You need the right contacts and not just a genuine reason to get a gun licence in India,” says dealer Sharma. It’s rich businessmen, people who can prove that they face a security threat, and Punjabis, who usually seek a licence, he says. Agrees Hoshiarpur-based Parminder Singh Bariana, “The day I bought my gun from the ordnance factory in Kolkata, at least 20 out of the 25 guns sold were bought by Punjabis.”

The gun is a status-symbol in Punjab, says Pramod Kumar, director of the Institute For Development and Communication, Chandigarh. “It’s a proof of masculinity and gives a man a dominant place in society,” he says. Besides, Punjabis are a martial race and weapons are part of their culture, he adds.

•Not surprisingly, the 1986 ban, which restricted the number of arms per licence to three and prohibited the import of weapons, has not gone down well with these gun toters. The question they all want answered is: why should a person who is responsible enough to own a gun licence be forced to make do with the obsolete, crude weapons that our country continues to produce?
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... 37974.aspx
© Copyright 2010 Hindustan Times

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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by dr.jayakumar » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:52 pm

hello friends i am at present finding difficult to file all these arguments.but i know one thing every legal law abiding citizen is not happy about this.friends,if some one could compile all this arguments,i'll happy to have it.as it takes tooooooooo much time for one to do it.kindly help.i am still yet to convince a lawyer,to file a writ.thanks everyone.we won't give up'' its our right'' kindly stand for it.whenever wherever i am wrong ,do correct me.will give you a detailed note of futher happenings.

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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by highlander9999 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:13 pm

when criminals have all types of guns how the restrictions imposed have made any differance someone said if want peace be prepared for a war this getting hypocritic day by day we must appeal to the supremecourt do all agree atleast one should fight for self defence and human rights otherwise lawlesness will rule thanks and regards to all those who are ready fight for legal rights highlander9999

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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by mundaire » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:39 am

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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by MKb 42 » Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:36 pm

any updates?

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Re: chellenging the arms act.RKBA

Post by HasnainQureshi21 » Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:20 am

you are taking a huge task in your hand, i will pray for you. If you succeed it will be a historical moment.
dr.jayakumar wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:52 pm
Hello everybody,i have slept enough.its high time i do some thing to rkba,so have planned and scrutinized enough,i hope;to challenge the govt on import law on firearm,which was rewritten in 1985[le me see].i will be filing a writ soon asking them why they had to stop importing guns and more.this is where the fun starts,operation blue star and ending with assassination of our beloved primeminister ,Mrs.Indira gandhi.Hope i can make some sense to the lawmakers by the time i am finished with this.SACRCASM,CRITISISM,comments, help and whatever,will be expected from you all.kindly feel free.if you can do it yourself

.I HAVE THEE RIGHT TO KEEP and BEAR ARMS FOR THE SAFETY OF MY FAMILY ,PROPERTY AND SOCIETY,COUNTRY.dr.jk.

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