MHA proposes to reduce weapon limit on arms licence to 1 weapon - Arms Act Amendment 2019.

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Re: One Gun Limit - Arms Act Amendment 2019

Post by Amin_owaisi » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:51 pm

Well i think at this juncture spreading the word around and trying to get support from all the people you know in power like mps and mlas and to make them mount pressure is something that should be done. Also replys should be sent to the email provided by as many people as possible ,anyone who is in delhi or nearby can also try to meet people in the homeministry or the ministers themselves and convey our thoughts .

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Re: One Gun Limit - Arms Act Amendment 2019

Post by kdghorpade » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:21 pm

The people in a position to do something about this are the MP's. They need to mobilised cutting across party lines and suitably briefed .

We have one of the strictest licencing and arms laws in the world. Whether you own 2 weapons or 3 does not make a change in the basic principle that a responsible licence holder is not a threat to society .

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Re: One Gun Limit - Arms Act Amendment 2019

Post by sumbriavikramaditya » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:50 pm

Last night at 12:19 AM my friend Asif, who is also IFG Forum member, informed me about this development. I am an emotional person. From that moment I am feeling as if someone has betrayed me. This development is very disheartening and Big Blow to Right to Keep and Bear Arms in India.
I request everyone who is member of IFG and NAGRI to take this a reality check for our efforts and Government"s response to them.
I request to our Forum's leaders to show us the path and guide us in this time of crisis for our community.
Please let's make our Forum more powerful and our voice more effectively listened by authorities.

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Vikramaditya Singh

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Re: One Gun Limit - Arms Act Amendment 2019

Post by captrakshitsharma » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:05 pm

Gentleman pls get this translated into regional languages.
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Re: One Gun Limit - Arms Act Amendment 2019

Post by casual shooter » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:20 pm

what about politicians....many politicians have multiple arms.....or the license to grant multiple arms will be with HM, another plum deal...

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Re: One Gun Limit - Arms Act Amendment 2019

Post by hvj1 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:57 pm

Gentlemen,
After reading and re-reading the said amendments I have not come across any section or sub-section which covers, affects sports shooters. Could somebody enlighten me on this aspect? Thank you very much.

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Re: One Gun Limit - Arms Act Amendment 2019

Post by sumbriavikramaditya » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:31 pm

Vineet wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:09 pm
If we don't oppose now after some time government will take back that one weapon also.
Absolutely.
ASIF007 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:40 am
Absolutely true. At the end we will have Air guns in our hands and shoot balloons only.

Regards
Agreed.
gwattal wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:53 am
lets collectively oppose this in courts if need be

lets also raise funds to do the above

govind
Govind ji, I fully agree with you. Option of going to Honourable Court is always open. For that we have to proceed as an united force. NAGRI is an good platform for our fight. Funds should be raised under a registered Organisation.
Shivaji.Dasgupta wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:13 pm
Let's plan and start protest. We have now sufficient members and many will join us in this move.
Protesting will be the last option. First option is to give suggestions to MHA as asked in the Public Notice dated 4 Nov 2019.
SMJ wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:09 pm
Rest assured unless the NRAI does something about this, we will be left in the lurch. A campaign/signature petition etc will be great but solid backing of the NRAI is a must in my opinion.
I have never seen NRAI in recent past fighting for RKBA. And most importantly, NRAI is a Government Organisation, it will follow the Govt. orders without saying anything. One more thing, I have never seen any online forum or platform for positive discussion operated by NRAI. On the other hand IFG is a platform which supports RKBA and discusses it with responsibility.
Amin_owaisi wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:51 pm
Well i think at this juncture spreading the word around and trying to get support from all the people you know in power like mps and mlas and to make them mount pressure is something that should be done. Also replys should be sent to the email provided by as many people as possible ,anyone who is in delhi or nearby can also try to meet people in the homeministry or the ministers themselves and convey our thoughts .
Spreading the word around is good.
Talking about support from MPs & MLAs, MLAs have no say in this issue and MPs will not help us. We are not a Vote Bank. Nobody comes to us asking for vote in return to support RKBA. Right now only option is to give proper and sound suggestions to MHA via email provided in Public Notice.
casual shooter wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:20 pm
what about politicians....many politicians have multiple arms.....or the license to grant multiple arms will be with HM, another plum deal...
Arms Act has no exception. Even politicians are under it.
hvj1 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:57 pm
Gentlemen,
After reading and re-reading the said amendments I have not come across any section or sub-section which covers, affects sports shooters. Could somebody enlighten me on this aspect? Thank you very much.
Sports Shooters are the only powerful Gun lobby in India. It is an expensive sport. International & national players, sons of influential people, businessmen, politicians, etc. are members of Sports Shooter Lobby. On the other hand we are common gun owners. Most of whom have got Gun Licenses after recommendations from local politicians and bureaucrats.


I am sorry guys, if I have in any case spoken bluntly. But this is the time to do so.

Regards
Vikramaditya Singh

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Re: One Gun Limit - Arms Act Amendment 2019

Post by captrakshitsharma » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:55 am

Gentlemen more food for thought To draft responses posted on topic
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27410
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Re: One Gun Limit - Arms Act Amendment 2019

Post by mundaire » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:47 pm

hvj1 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:57 pm
Gentlemen,
After reading and re-reading the said amendments I have not come across any section or sub-section which covers, affects sports shooters. Could somebody enlighten me on this aspect? Thank you very much.
Almost all of them will be affected, except for Arjuna Awardees.

Since their exemptions talk about how many firearms they can own in addition to what is allowed to an ordinary citizen. Hence:

1. For renowned shoots in single discipline it used to be 3 (for normal citizen) + 4 = 7 maximum. Now it will be 1+4 = 5 max
2. For renowned shoots in more than one discipline it used to be 3 (for normal citizen) + 4 + 4 = subject to a max total of 10. Now it will be 1+4+4 = 9 max
3. For aspiring / junior shooters it used to be 3 (for normal citizen) + 1 = 4 maximum. Now it will be 1+1 = 2 max

Also, let us not forget the following basic fact:-

1. No one is born a shooter, one becomes a shooter after extensive practice and that requires access to arms. If this is pushed through, then most people will be forced to part with all except for 1 firearm for self protection. Which will mean that almost no one will have access to sporting firearms at home/ with family. Hence, there will be a much reduced pool of potential future shooters. Basically only those people who belong to a family in which there are already renowned shooters. In effect cutting off the vast majority of our citizens from access to this sport - forever!

2. This is an Amendment to the Arms Act 1959, the exemptions given to shooters are in the form of notifications my the Government of India and/ or in the Arms Rules 2016. If this Amendment to the Arms Act, which requires parliamentary approval sails through - how long do you think it will be before they start changing things for which they don't even require to approach the parliament?!
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Re: MHA proposes to reduce weapon limit on arms licence to 1 weapon - Arms Act Amendment 2019.

Post by omkarwayne » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:01 pm

I propose we run an online campaign against this move. I don't think the government will stop this for a signature petition. We have to convince people that good law-abiding people with a gun can deter threats; and most of all we have to let people know what they've forgotten, their right to keep and bear arms.

We can begin with working on our Instagram, Facebook and YouTube's pages. We can improve the pages by contributing our content.

What Say?

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Re: MHA proposes to reduce weapon limit on arms licence to 1 weapon - Arms Act Amendment 2019.

Post by Amin_owaisi » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:48 am

All of us will be affected but some renowned shooters think that it wont affect them so they are not even bothering to send an email, NRAI should realize that this law will lessen the number of people coming into shooting sport and also the fact that one could own a gun he liked made people come into the sport ,with all this it will be doomed .i request everyone to send emails to [email protected] as has been asked by mha and raise your concerns .also who ever knows an mp or politician should approach them and the last thing is every gun owner in india should know about this so spread the word through whatts app and other social media and also write to mha on twitter etc to make it count

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Re: One Gun Limit - Arms Act Amendment 2019

Post by hvj1 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:09 pm

mundaire wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:47 pm

Also, let us not forget the following basic fact:-

1. No one is born a shooter, one becomes a shooter after extensive practice and that requires access to arms. If this is pushed through, then most people will be forced to part with all except for 1 firearm for self protection. Which will mean that almost no one will have access to sporting firearms at home/ with family. Hence, there will be a much reduced pool of potential future shooters. Basically only those people who belong to a family in which there are already renowned shooters. In effect cutting off the vast majority of our citizens from access to this sport - forever!

2. This is an Amendment to the Arms Act 1959, the exemptions given to shooters are in the form of notifications my the Government of India and/ or in the Arms Rules 2016. If this Amendment to the Arms Act, which requires parliamentary approval sails through - how long do you think it will be before they start changing things for which they don't even require to approach the parliament?!
I agree (y)

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Re: MHA proposes to reduce weapon limit on arms licence to 1 weapon - Arms Act Amendment 2019.

Post by hvj1 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:39 pm

Gentlemen,

I am trying to get to the bottom of these proposed amendments:

Once somebody comes to power, MP , MLA, Senior Bureaucrat etc and occupies a very high and responsible post where he/she can make a decision (such as the proposed amendments) does his/her thinking veer in the following directions:

1. Somehow their mind develops an US Vs THEM mind set. Because we are in Power we are somehow superior to the 'them's (ordinary citizens) . And by default we know what is BEST for them.

2. Does it also create a sense of insecurity in the ruling class(US)?

3. If it does create a sense of insecurity then the inference is rather dangerous. It means that they have either forgotten that their power is not permanent. OR That they wish to remain in Power forever? Which again leads to another dangerous inference - Will they then resort to staying in power forever using tyrannical means?

4. If tyranny is their ultimate goal ( to somehow stay in power forever) then YES, the armed citizenry is the GREATEST THREAT to them. An Armed revolution is a horrifying aspect. So why not deal with it NOW, when they are in POWER? Reduce very gradually the number of weapons with the ultimate objective of reducing the number of weapons to ZERO! Then and then only will they be rid of possible future armed uprisings.

5. Or is the whole exercise aimed at reducing terrorism? So typically a knee jerk reaction follows regardless of the impact on sports and self defence arguments.

6. Subsequent govts, regardless of which party comes to power have whittled away at this right to bear arms. Starting from the 80s when the Rao govt. banned all imports of foreign arms. It continues to this day ( the recent draft amendments testify to this).

To my mind, it appears to me that that our rulers ( having forgotten that they are temporary) are taking us to a Chinese model of govt.

'Civilian ownership of firearms is largely restricted to non-individual entities such as sporting organisations, hunting reserves, and wildlife protection, management and research organizations. The chief exception to the general ban for individual gun ownership is for the purpose of hunting.[6] Individuals who hold hunting permits can apply to purchase and hold firearms for the purpose of hunting.[7] Illegal possession or sale of firearms may result in a minimum punishment of 3 years in prison, and the penalty for a gun crime is death penalty.[8][2]' (downloaded from Wiki)

Notice the similarity of their laws with the recent draft.

Who can forget Tiananmen Square?

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Re: One Gun Limit - Arms Act Amendment 2019

Post by Mr.Shome » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:26 pm

mundaire wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:47 pm
hvj1 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:57 pm
Gentlemen,
After reading and re-reading the said amendments I have not come across any section or sub-section which covers, affects sports shooters. Could somebody enlighten me on this aspect? Thank you very much.
Almost all of them will be affected, except for Arjuna Awardees.

Since their exemptions talk about how many firearms they can own in addition to what is allowed to an ordinary citizen. Hence:

1. For renowned shoots in single discipline it used to be 3 (for normal citizen) + 4 = 7 maximum. Now it will be 1+4 = 5 max
2. For renowned shoots in more than one discipline it used to be 3 (for normal citizen) + 4 + 4 = subject to a max total of 10. Now it will be 1+4+4 = 9 max
3. For aspiring / junior shooters it used to be 3 (for normal citizen) + 1 = 4 maximum. Now it will be 1+1 = 2 max

Also, let us not forget the following basic fact:-

1. No one is born a shooter, one becomes a shooter after extensive practice and that requires access to arms. If this is pushed through, then most people will be forced to part with all except for 1 firearm for self protection. Which will mean that almost no one will have access to sporting firearms at home/ with family. Hence, there will be a much reduced pool of potential future shooters. Basically only those people who belong to a family in which there are already renowned shooters. In effect cutting off the vast majority of our citizens from access to this sport - forever!

2. This is an Amendment to the Arms Act 1959, the exemptions given to shooters are in the form of notifications my the Government of India and/ or in the Arms Rules 2016. If this Amendment to the Arms Act, which requires parliamentary approval sails through - how long do you think it will be before they start changing things for which they don't even require to approach the parliament?!
Good Afternoon,

With all due regards to your expertise, I still have a few doubts.

Firstly, the wordings of the proposed amendment suggest a blanket ban of restricting people from owning nothing more than 1 gun (including family heirloom). So, does this means that they will be magnanimous (sarcasm intended) enough to let renowned shots own 5 and 9 guns across both categories? They have nowhere mentioned about exempting sports persons.

Secondly, as per the existing law, I interpreted that an Aspiring Shooter is allowed to own only 1 gun in the category of his/her shooting discipline.

Thirdly, as per the existing, it seems that someone, who is not an Aspiring Shooter, may attempt the Herculean task of obtaining 1 Rifle (in the proposed amendment, the wording has been changed to 1 firearm).

While I heartily wish that I am wrong, please let me know whether I am or not. Also, all the best everyone.

A humble reminder: 18th November is the last date to shoot your views to [email protected]

I am trying to get Rakshit's document translated into Hindi and Bengali (added a few of my own suggestions too), which the seniors may check for appropriateness. I have added my suggestions in the form of comments to Rakshit's original document. Attached the file to this post.

Best regards,

PShome
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Re: MHA proposes to reduce weapon limit on arms licence to 1 weapon - Arms Act Amendment 2019.

Post by russianshooter3 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:00 pm

In Russia limit up x2
https://rg.ru/2019/11/06/kolichestvo-ra ... vdvoe.html

one citizen 10 shotgun 10 rifle

rifle in Russian law its including semi-auto "assault rifle" looks like AK AR including SBR

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