Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

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captrakshitsharma
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Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by captrakshitsharma » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:25 pm

Gentleman here is a basic format why we require more guns. Please add what you feel maybe necessary to this that is of relevance and makes good sense .

Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Background

The British era Arms Act of 1878 placed no restriction on the total number of firearms an individual could own against a valid arms license in India, this despite the fact that they were an alien power ruling over us! Also, the Arms Act 1959 as initially enacted, placed no such limits on Indian citizens. The limit of 3 firearms, was introduced into the Arms Act 1959 as late as 1983, via an amendment to Section 3 of the Arms Act citing unsubstantiated reasons, by the then Congress government under the leadership on Smt. Indira Gandhi.
Before proceeding further, let us explore why an individual would want to own multiple firearms?

Reasons for Ownership of Multiple Firearms

1. Different firearms have different utility:
Just like other tools, even with firearms, one size does not fit all. Those of us who play golf would be able to immediately relate to this, as they have first hand experience of why a golf bag simply MUST contain several different kinds of golf clubs. Amongst firearms there are THREE major classes, with very different utility:-
  1. Handguns – includes both revolvers and semi-auto pistols, and are usually the most preferred firearm for close range self-defence situations. Please note, even within this category revolvers and semi-auto pistols have different advantages/ disadvantages and utility based on situation, etc..
    1. Revolvers - Easier to learn to use safely and can be deployed fast. However, bulkier than semi-auto pistols and limited in ammunition capacity. Also, are usually not as accurate as pistols
    2. Semi-auto Pistols - Easier to conceal due to flatter shape, usually have larger ammunition capacity than revolvers and more accurate. However, take more practice to learn how to use safely and effectively. Also, are slower to deploy as they are usually carried with an empty chamber.
  2. Shotguns – these are also essentially close range firearms, with an effective range of no more than 50 yards. They are preferred for protection of home premises or any other premises which may be located within an urban area where a longer range firearm (like a centrefire rifle) may pose a risk of causing unintended injury.
  3. Sporting Rifles – these are longer range firearms, which are preferred in case of protecting a premises far away from habitation (like on a farm or factory) as well as for protecting crops from problem animals and of course for target practice.
While travelling, a handgun may be ideal, but if attacked by dacoits on a farm, one would need a rifle. Similarly, for home defence a shotgun or handgun is better. People who can afford to own more than 2 guns, typically own more than one residence as well, and are faced with many different scenarios for self protection.

Even within the above FOUR major classes of firearms, there is a wide variety, each with different applications. Just a few examples to illustrate the point:-
  • A person may choose to carry on their person a smaller handgun, when wearing western style summer clothing, as a full size handgun may be impossible to conceal while wearing such clothing. Conversely while wearing looser fitting winter clothing or Indian wear, a person would prefer to carry a full size handgun, as the smaller one may be difficult to reach and manipulate under several layers of clothing.
  • A person may own one/ more family heirlooms, which they choose to retain for sentimental reasons, but because of the age/ vintage of these old firearms, they may not be reliable, so a person may choose to own a more modern firearm for self protection or sport.
  • A person may own a double barrel or semi-auto shotgun for sport, but may choose to keep a lighter weight pump action shotgun at home for self protection.
  • A person may own a .22 rimfire for target practice, and also a centrefire rifle for self protection or long range target practice.
  • In addition, within each class of firearms, there are several hundreds of calibres (bores) available, each with its own set of pluses and minuses. A person may choose to use different calibres for different purposes.
2. One needs a backup in case one’s firearm fails to work!
Self explanatory, just like other tools/ machines a firearm can fail to function, any reasonable person would like to keep a back-up for such situations.

3. Collection
Just as people collect other items, enthusiasts also collect different types/ makes of firearms. These collections are also part of our shared heritage as a nation.

Why is limiting the number of firearms a bad idea?

1. Domestic Industry – wealth creation, jobs & a strong defence production base within India
When the limit of 3 firearms was introduced in 1983, amongst other things, a key driver was saving of foreign exchange, as most people who owned more than 3 firearms, mostly owned foreign made firearms. This is no longer the case, since the ban on import of firearms (which came in 1986), most people have been purchasing Indian made firearms.

Furthermore, our government has allowed private manufacture of firearms under Arms Rules 2016, and many such licenses have been issued. While this private industry is still in its nascent stage, destroying the domestic market for legal licensed firearms via placing limits on the total number of licensed firearms will severely restrict the economic viability of this industry.

It is unreasonable and short-sighted to expect this industry to survive merely on government orders. One may look at how Brazil has created a thriving domestic industry producing small arms and ammunition, initially based largely on domestic civilian demand, but which is now competing on equal footing in international markets against products made in economically developed nations.

2. The kind of people who own more than one firearm are the least likely to pose any kind of threat to law & order
Lets not forget that firearms are costly and there is a finite limit on resources a person has to spend on discretionary items. People who have such resources are well established individuals and never a threat to law and order or national security. By far most people who own more than one firearm are either serving or retired Government officials, policemen, former military officers, current or former members of Parliament or state legislatures, professionals, businessmen, sportspersons etc. These type of persons are never any threat to public order or national security, in fact they are our core nation builders who must not be penalised based on incorrect interpretation of national security requirements.

3. Such limits serve no demonstrable public good.
Placing limits on ownership of multiple firearms serves no demonstrable public good, as a person bent on misuse can misuse even one firearm and hardened criminals anyway procure illegal arms, which cannot be traced and are cheaper than legal arms (by many times).

4. Placing limits on total number of firearms is a throwback to Socialism
A firearm is self acquired property, not a gift from the government. Unless it can be demonstrably proven than such limits lead to a public benefit, they serve no propose other than to target law abiding citizens, who have made every effort to remain within the preview of the law, while doing absolutely nothing to target those who obtain and use illegal arms.

5. Violent Crime in India has increased ever since the limit of 3 guns was introduced in 1983
Empirical evidence points to the fact, that after the 3 gun limit was placed in 1983, the law and order situation has only deteriorated in India. In fact after this limit was placed, there has been a manifold increase in violent crime and especially firearm related crime using illegal guns!
An objective observer would, rightly conclude, that such limits are counter productive or at the very least, they serve no useful purpose in limiting violent crime or other such nefarious activities.

6. In most nations where civilian gun ownership is permitted, usually no more than 5% to 7% citizens own multiple firearms
A similar situation exists in India. However, just because most people cannot afford to own more than one firearm or choose not to. Even in those nations, no hard limits are imposed on total number of firearms. One can choose to review the situation in most free Democratic nations of the world, whether they are European, North American, or even Asian nations like Thailand & Philippines. Once an individual's antecedents have been properly verified, there is no public benefit to be served by limiting his/ her choice to own more than one firearm. Those who are well established individuals, with a passion for this hobby and sport should not be penalised for exercising their rights as free citizens to pursue their interests, especially because they are neither a threat to public order or national security. One the other hand, those individuals who do pose any such threat should be barred from owning even one firearm!

Focus Should be on Eliminating Illegal Guns

It may be pertinent to point out that India is the only nation in the world where illegal firearms are cheaper than legal licensed firearms (of same/ similar type)!

No government in the world can completely prevent smuggling and / or illegal trade, this is amply demonstrated by worldwide experience with liquor prohibition and drug trade.

However, focussed efforts can ensure that illegal items are much more expensive than legal, licensed and traceable firearms. This puts pressure on criminals and anti social elements as well as ensures that those following the law don't feel unfairly victimized by their own government.

Prayer
We request that the Hon'able Minister consider either not amending Section 3 of the Arms Act 1959, or if indeed this Section is to be Amended, then it should be a positive amendment which increases the total number of firearms a verified and licensed individual can own from the current figure of three to a more reasonable number like five - which would allow an individual to own at least one firearm of each category (as described above).
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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by Anand » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:01 pm

Agree on all your points captain, I have already drafted a response covering the same points and similar reasoning.
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Anand

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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by sumbriavikramaditya » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:06 pm

Please guide how to suggest the amendments and their justification as asked by MHA via email provided in the Public Notice dated 4 Nov 2019.

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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by captrakshitsharma » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:10 pm

Please get this translated into regional languages ! 🙏
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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by sudhirsingh12b » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:23 pm

Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?
Its very Similar that why people need More than one Vehicle??
whether 2 Wheeler or 4 Wheeler.
Each one has its own Purpose as Explained very beautifully Earlier by "captrakshitsharma"

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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by Kamleshwar » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:41 pm

Capt Sharma has drafted an appropriate reply. We should try to make it reach the Honble home minister through NRAI/ state rifle associations.

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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by russianshooter3 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:54 pm

Sir
good decision doing some form of license

1 self defence licence - 1 licence - 1 weapon (pistol or shotgun)
2 sport license 1 license - 10-15 weapon (pistol revolver rifle shotgun)
3 hunting (pest control) license 1 license - 5-15 weapon including semi-auto rifle looks like AR AK SKS
4 collection license 1 license - No limit weapon - buy all what your want - 10 ashani pistol 30 iof revolver 20 iof rifle

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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by mundaire » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:28 pm

If sending as e-mail feedback to MHA, you need to do it in the following format:-

Feedback/ suggestions:
feedback_draft_amendment_bill_2019-05-11-19.doc
Reasoning (as annexure)
feedback_annexure_draft_amendment_bill_2019_05-11-19.doc
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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by hvj1 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:44 pm

Hello Captain,
A superbly drafted, comprehensive and logical presentation of points.
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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by captrakshitsharma » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:51 am

Some more Food for thought - Arms are a religious requirement as well, Shashtra Pooja is an integral part of Hindu religion and every year even Defence Minister & PM Modi practice it . Denial of licenses and confiscating legal weapons by reduction are a hindrance to practising faith where weapons are not considered as mere tools or objects but a deity and worshipped, Therefore it is violative of Article 21, 25 and 26 of the Constitution.

While traveling , concealed small arms are the practical option for self defence . For Sports , Long Range Home Defence, Crop Protection and Man Animal Conflict long Guns like rifles and shotguns are the only practical option. Taking these away restricts the ability to perform these tasks and activities and infringement of civil liberties . It’s Violative of right to protection of life by mounting a reasonable self defence, Right of worship. Being deprived of choice of a practical weapon for different varying requirements.While a shotgun or Rifle is suited more for Home defence/Farms but cannot be carried discretely for personal safety while traveling due to bulk so this amounts to reducing a holder’s safety by forcing him to choose one arm whereas his requirements for different needs are varied.

Article 25 gives Sikhs freedom to carry Kirpans etc, The Kodava community of Coorg are exempted from having an arms license on religious grounds too and each can freely keep a muzzle loader or shotgun and a rifle, so on grounds of parity, other Hindus “ should not be denied the right to bear arms for self defence and worship.

You will also see from the NCRB statistics that in the total number of violent crime cases, Licensed firearms were only used in between 0.25% to 0.11% of cases.

Furthermore, if we only look at the total number of murder cases each year - a very limited view in my opinion but since many people cry out about "gun crime" being the "cause" of murders, you will see that of the TOTAL number of murders committed in India (year after year) in about 90% of cases means other than firearms were used. Furthermore LICENSED ARMS were only used in 0.9% to 1.7% of total murder cases registered.

To strip legal weapons off law abiding licensed and registered Citizens will only make them more vulnerable to criminals who hold the rest 90.5 % weapons in ratio as illegal ones will remain unaffected and incentivised due to coercive denial of arms to law abiding citizenry.
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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by HairyTrigger » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:25 pm

Useless thoughts:
  • Violent Crime in India has increased ever since the limit of 3 guns was introduced in 1983
    While I agree with that, I think we need supporting data. How hard would that be to find? Does the government keep statistics of crimes divided into categories (firearms involved, terrorism, murders by type, etc)? If not, it is possible the US has some data, but it will not be the same thing. But, it is data.
  • Didn't Ghandi himself said The greatest sin of the English was to totally disarm an entire country? If so, I would add that quote somewhere on the letter for impact and hopefully strengthen the argument.

    NOTE: what he really said (reference included) was
    And why do I regard the British rule as a curse?
    [...]
    It has reduced us politically to serfdom. It has sapped the foundations of our culture, and, by the policy of disarmament, it has degraded us spiritually. Lacking inward strength, we have been reduced by all but universal disarmament to a state bordering on cowardly helplessness.
    — M. Gandhi, First Letter to Lord Irwin, March 2, 1930, in which he announced the Salt Campaign.
    http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/wh ... about-guns
  • On collectors license, imagine if someone decided to start a collection of only firearms made in India? I think that would be a worthwhile cause for at the very least to preserve Indian history but also show a bit of national pride. Imagine if someone decides to make a book of the same depth as https://www.wetdogstore.com/FN-49-Last- ... 97-1-5.htm and https://www.forgottenweapons.com/book-r ... jean-huon/, but just for Indian rifles (not even counting shotguns and handguns). That is a tall order; off the top of my head we have the Martini Henrys (including Francotes and Gahendras, which could be a chapter by themselves explaining historical context), Lee Enfields (how many variations from the original ones to the jungle carbines and the 2A1?), to the 1A1 FAL all the way to the INSAS and Excaliburs and beyond. Note I did not even add the black powder ones. Even if we just ignore the lastest models, we have gone way past the 3 firearms mark to have a proper representative sample a collector worthy of his salt would own.

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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by mundaire » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:30 pm

Here is the data, direct from the NCRB website.

From 2017 onwards they are not releasing the data for number of licensed/ unlicensed firearms used in homicide cases, at least I could not find that data. In stead they have very deviously complied a data for "crimes against the state", which clubs together all factory made firearms along with legal licensed firearms (under one head) and country made firearms (under another head). Clearly an attempt to nefariously target legal licensed gun owners!
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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by sumbriavikramaditya » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:02 am

mundaire wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:28 pm
If sending as e-mail feedback to MHA, you need to do it in the following format:-

Feedback/ suggestions: feedback_draft_amendment_bill_2019-05-11-19.doc

Reasoning (as annexure) feedback_annexure_draft_amendment_bill_2019_05-11-19.doc
Mr. Abhijit, in this feedback/suggestion we are suggesting the amendment for increasing the number of firearms one person can possess from 3 to 5. Or should we suggest No Change. As Govt. is thinking of reducing it to 1, will suggesting otherwise will help?

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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by mundaire » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:19 am

Suggest no change from 3 or increase to 5 or 6 or more, as you see personally fit. This draft is merely there as a starting point for those who wish to send in their suggestions. Please feel free to copy/ paste from it/ edit it to best suit your own thoughts on the matter.
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Re: Why Do Citizens Need Multiple Firearms (More Than 3)?

Post by sumbriavikramaditya » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:45 pm

mundaire wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:19 am
Suggest no change from 3 or increase to 5 or 6 or more, as you see personally fit. This draft is merely there as a starting point for those who wish to send in their suggestions. Please feel free to copy/ paste from it/ edit it to best suit your own thoughts on the matter.
Sir, I would like to say that first of all we should focus on this suggestion to MHA via email.

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