The Self-defence conundrum.

Discussions on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
Ambi
Learning the ropes
Learning the ropes
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:40 pm

The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by Ambi » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:53 pm

Can anybody foresee that at some time in future, a self- defence situation would arise and he would need a weapon to Survival?
Recently one young man was stabbed with knives and killed by some persons who stormed into his house. If his family had owned a gun, they could have saved his life. Six months before that, the victim, at least in this case, couldn't have foreseen the threat to his life and if he had applied for gun licence for self defence, it would, in all likelihood, have been rejected.
This incident, just one of numerous similar ones, goes to show that self defence need is unpredictable and may arise at any time in one's life. The threat to life is ever present and there is no sense in government asking for proof as condition for a gun licence.

For Advertising mail webmaster
User avatar
sumbriavikramaditya
One of Us (Nirvana)
One of Us (Nirvana)
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:37 am
Location: Jammu, J&K

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by sumbriavikramaditya » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:58 pm

Yes, you are correct but Governments have a different way of thinking and acting.

sourabhsangale
One of Us (Nirvana)
One of Us (Nirvana)
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:07 am
Location: Pune

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by sourabhsangale » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:56 pm

Ambi wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:53 pm
Can anybody foresee that at some time in future, a self- defence situation would arise and he would need a weapon to Survival?
Recently one young man was stabbed with knives and killed by some persons who stormed into his house. If his family had owned a gun, they could have saved his life. Six months before that, the victim, at least in this case, couldn't have foreseen the threat to his life and if he had applied for gun licence for self defence, it would, in all likelihood, have been rejected.
This incident, just one of numerous similar ones, goes to show that self defence need is unpredictable and may arise at any time in one's life. The threat to life is ever present and there is no sense in government asking for proof as condition for a gun licence.
Gun license doesn’t guarantee that you will be safe . You have to have practice and presence of mind to keep up which this situation.
Gun license cannot be granted to each and everyone.

User avatar
sumbriavikramaditya
One of Us (Nirvana)
One of Us (Nirvana)
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:37 am
Location: Jammu, J&K

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by sumbriavikramaditya » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:01 pm

sourabhsangale wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:56 pm
Gun license doesn’t guarantee that you will be safe . You have to have practice and presence of mind to keep up which this situation.
Gun license cannot be granted to each and everyone.
I strongly agree.

sourabhsangale
One of Us (Nirvana)
One of Us (Nirvana)
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:07 am
Location: Pune

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by sourabhsangale » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:05 pm

If we start granting license to every tom dick and harry on the name of self defence and protection than every day there will be murders rather than self protection.

User avatar
timmy
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2187
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:03 am
Location: home on the range

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by timmy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:18 pm

sourabhsangale wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:05 pm
If we start granting license to every tom dick and harry on the name of self defence and protection than every day there will be murders rather than self protection.
So, is it that society should give you a license, but every other Tom, Dick, and Harry in society is evil and a potential murderer?

I say, "Rubbish!"

People sometimes do need the need to protect themselves, especially when society cannot or will not provide that protection.

Each individual is best able to determine when the need for protection exists, not folks like you, who think that neighbors are all potential killers.

Of course, there should be limitations on convicted criminals, which would eliminate folks in government who make the rules.

But you seem to be only advocating guns for yourself, in contrast with the name of our group, which is Indians for Guns.

Perhaps you need to go back and consider these things, and whether you actually belong here.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

User avatar
UDAYANJADHAV
On the way to nirvana
On the way to nirvana
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:54 am

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by UDAYANJADHAV » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:41 pm

In India, only VIPs have threat to life. Common Indian citizen is the most protected citizen on earth. Only high tier politicians and their dear ones need to carry guns because they are so dutiful and righteous that all criminals and terrorists want to harm them. We can see from the data that in the past few decades only politicians were attacked by criminals, latest case being 26/11 where no citizen was harmed, only VIPs. That is why I say that only the VIPs and their relatives should be allowed to RKBA. Common Indian doesn't needs, nor deserves the right to self defence.

Mr.Shome
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:24 pm

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by Mr.Shome » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:29 pm

All well connected or wealthy people in India are entitled to licenses...even if they are Toms, Dicks or Harrys. Looks like some members of this forum have a Colonial Hangover regarding something as basic as a weapon. I hope, I ruffled the right feathers. Overall, this is a wonderful forum. Have been going through some of the earlier posts. The quality seems to have taken a beating after certain Toms, Dicks and Harrys joined in - unfortunately, joining such a wonderful forum is easier than obtaining a license. Also wanted to point out since a long time that many folks only join in for answers to their queries, without following the basic etiquette of introducing themselves. Of course, this is followed by the vanishing act.
Mil Sake Aasani Sey Uski Khwaish Kisko hai. Zid toh uski hai, jo muqaddar mein likha he nahin

Mr.Shome
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:24 pm

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by Mr.Shome » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:32 am

Taking this discussion a step further... As per my casual conversation around a year ago with a gun shop owner, roughly 10 to 15 licenses are issued in Kolkata annually. Most of these are for sports quota (of course, even highly talented sports people get it with unfathomable difficulties, if they don't happen to be Toms, Dicks and Harrys with the right connections to prove themselves or rather muscle their way through)... the few remaining ones for self defense go to those privileged handful, irrespective of their Tom, Dick etc. identity.
Mil Sake Aasani Sey Uski Khwaish Kisko hai. Zid toh uski hai, jo muqaddar mein likha he nahin

Ambi
Learning the ropes
Learning the ropes
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:40 pm

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by Ambi » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:13 am

" Having a gun doesn't guarantee one's safety"
is the predictable refrain. But even otherwise, there is no guarantee that one will be safe tomorrow. And like the straw to a drowning man, a gun gives hope to its owner that he and his family can be saved.
There is another justification, more important than even self defence, to abolish gun control,viz- saving somebody under attack. Recently a couple was fatally attacked on the highway, watched helplessly by a bus-load of people. If some of them had been armed, they could have saved the victims.
To repeat: The threat to life is unpredictable and government shouldn't ask for proof of it to grant a gun license.

User avatar
UDAYANJADHAV
On the way to nirvana
On the way to nirvana
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:54 am

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by UDAYANJADHAV » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:50 am

Exactly! This notion that only some elites are capable of handling guns is very sickening. If a person has no criminal record, has all the minimum requirements stipulated by the law then he or she should get the license irrespective of family background or status.

partheus
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by partheus » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:57 am

And, therein lies the problem with current firearm legislation. It doesn't even pass a cursory scrutiny. Apparently, you have to prove you're under threat to be considered for a self-defense license. So according to our legislators, crimes of chance (road robbery, snatch and grab etc) couldn't possibly happen and criminals will always give you a fair warning well in advance before making their move on you.

But, I believe the reason why this (and many other) nonsensical rules continue to abound is because most of us are too busy struggling to live to even consider them. How many actually bother to tune into a parliament session and then contact their MLAs with reservations, if any? Obviously, no change will happen until more people start asking questions.

Mr.Shome
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:24 pm

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by Mr.Shome » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:48 pm

partheus wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:57 am
And, therein lies the problem with current firearm legislation. It doesn't even pass a cursory scrutiny. Apparently, you have to prove you're under threat to be considered for a self-defense license. So according to our legislators, crimes of chance (road robbery, snatch and grab etc) couldn't possibly happen and criminals will always give you a fair warning well in advance before making their move on you.

But, I believe the reason why this (and many other) nonsensical rules continue to abound is because most of us are too busy struggling to live to even consider them. How many actually bother to tune into a parliament session and then contact their MLAs with reservations, if any? Obviously, no change will happen until more people start asking questions.
Yes Partheus, you nailed it...can't agree more with the the thought that 'most of us are too busy struggling to live to even consider them', and of course the rest of your post.
Mil Sake Aasani Sey Uski Khwaish Kisko hai. Zid toh uski hai, jo muqaddar mein likha he nahin

Ambi
Learning the ropes
Learning the ropes
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:40 pm

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by Ambi » Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:46 pm

The Indian Arms Act seems to be an exercise in futility. There are an estimated (2016) 10m licensed guns and 60m unlicensed ones. All this sound and fury about PB & NPB, character verification, referees, training requirement, accounting of spent cartridges etc are in respect of the miserable 15% of guns in public hands. The government has no clue how to control or eliminate the 85% illegal guns. This like squeezing honest tax payersand businessmen and letting tax-evaders and loan defaulters untouched.

User avatar
eljefe
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2626
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:37 am

Re: The Self-defence conundrum.

Post by eljefe » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:14 pm

''It dont mean a thing, if it aint got that zing!''

"...Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away..."

Post Reply