Ricochet

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casual shooter
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Ricochet

Post by casual shooter » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:20 pm

Can a rifle shot ricochet from water surface......?
if a rifle shell will ground say after 1200 meters, will it still fly only 1200 meters before it grounds after ricochet.?
what are legal implications of any injury sustained by ricochet shell.?
please educate.
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Vineet
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Re: Ricochet

Post by Vineet » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:30 pm

casual shooter wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:20 pm
Can a rifle shot ricochet from water surface......?
Yes, it depends on angle but bullet can ricochet, skid off or bounce off on water.

casual shooter wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:20 pm
if a rifle shell will ground say after 1200 meters, will it still fly only 1200 meters before it grounds after ricochet.?
Haven't understood what you want to say. Looks like you are calling the 'bullet' as 'shell'.
casual shooter wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:20 pm
what are legal implications of any injury sustained by ricochet shell.?
The shooter is completely responsible for any injury occurred as a result of ricochet, negligent discharge, accidental discharge or aerial firing.

In aerial firing injury, the shooter is difficult to trace as the injured person and shooter may be more than one kilometer away from each other.

Below is the example of stray bullet taking a life but the shooter was arrested by police. https://www.google.com/amp/s/indianexpr ... arty/lite/
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Re: Ricochet

Post by casual shooter » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:36 pm

Relates to distance travelled by bullet is it same after ricochet..

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Re: Ricochet

Post by casual shooter » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:37 pm

Relates to distance travelled by bullet is it same after ricochet..
Thank you Vineet for information, and knowledge
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Re: Ricochet

Post by Shivaji.Dasgupta » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:23 am

casual shooter wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:20 pm
Can a rifle shot ricochet from water surface......?
if a rifle shell will ground say after 1200 meters, will it still fly only 1200 meters before it grounds after ricochet.?
what are legal implications of any injury sustained by ricochet shell.?
please educate.
regards
Yes but a rifle shot can deviated or deflect after hitting or touching any surface.
If a rifle shot is having a range of 1200 mtrs and on its path it hit any object or surface then on the aforementioned process it will lose energy and bound to decease in it's total range.
If any injury sustained by any person from a recochet or deviated or deflected bullet or slug then the responsibility will be on the shooter for sure but to the best of my knowledge it will fall under injury caused by unintentional action.

Best example is famous USA lake shooting incident where the bullet deflected on the water surface and then it reach to a nearby shooting sports facility where it again reflect after hitting celling and then hit a sports person on his head and cause death. On This incident a discovery episode was also made.
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Re: Ricochet

Post by timmy » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:38 am

Bullets ricocheting from the surface of water has an interesting history.

During the days of sailing ships and smoothbore blackpowder cannon, British Admiral Nelson would have his gunnery aim somewhat short (about 2/3rds or so) of the enemy ships, and skip cannonballs into the sides of the enemy. It was this skip principle that led Barnes Wallis, the famous British engineer (he designed the R-100 dirigible, Vickers Wellesley and Wellington bombers, and the powerful supersonic Tallboy and Grand Slam bombs, to name a few things), to conceive of the "skip bombs" used to destroy the Ruhr dams during WW2. When asked about his idea of using skip bombs, Wallis specifically credited Nelson.

The American Army Air Corps, during the Pacific War with Japan, also used skip bombing against Japanese ships.
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Re: Ricochet

Post by casual shooter » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:04 am

yes interesting and they were also known as dam busters, there was a BBC documentary also on this but they were like big balls , which would reverse swing and sink just near the wall of the dam and burst...

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Re: Ricochet

Post by casual shooter » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:08 am

I think looking at the logic, if one practices at a licensed range and then if the bullet ricochets then it will be considered as an accident . more of an issue with FMJ bullets, not with lead loads.
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Re: Ricochet

Post by timmy » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:16 pm

I think it depends on the range. All of the ranges I've used have a thick dirt backstop that rises quite high above the target level. A stray shot coming from any of those ranges would mean negligence on the part of the shooter, by shooting over the backstop somehow. Or, if a person is out shooting in the country without a proper backstop, again they'd be liable.

If the range doesn't have the proper backstop, then I suppose someone could find them liable for a loose round.

I recall an incident about 10 years back, when someone in a trailer home had a 50 BMG bullet hit their trailer. It had evidently come from a range that was in the vicinity. 50 BMG has quite a range! No culprit was ever found.

Yes, the Barnes Wallis dam buster bombs were drum shaped and carried by specially modified Lancasters. The bomb was spun by a hydraulic motor before being dropped, imparting a back spin relative to the direction it traveled as it skipped to the dam. This avoided torpedo netting deployed to protect the dam and ensured that it rolled down the face of the dam, exploding close to the back surface of it.

I've seen that BBC documentary. There's also a movie from the 50s starring Michael Redgrave and Richard Todd that's pretty good.
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Re: Ricochet

Post by Rakshith » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:10 pm

Technically, it can. And yes, you will be held accountable. That's why it's so important to know exactly where you're shooting and ensuring you have either sufficient clearance or backstop.

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Re: Ricochet

Post by eljefe » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:37 pm

.22 soft lead Bullets are notorious for bouncing off water. I’ve seen it happen.
The skip effect of cannon balls on land was known to 18 &19 century artillerymen both here and in Europe. There is a very graphic description by an English infantry man, chronicled in a book, of the damage and mutilation caused by Sikh artillery during the Anglo Sikh wars.
How far will a ‘normal’ rifle bullet go AFTER a ricochet? Direction, speed and velocity dependant. Your guess is as good as mine.
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Re: Ricochet

Post by Rakshith » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:00 pm

Whoa. I can only imagine the skip effect of cannon fire. That must have been utterly terrifying.

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