Mack The Knife:
How is the HW45 doing. Advise, should I go for Webley Hurricane(Local dealer has in .177 at $240 as a Beeman Vs. $339 for HW45 in either .177 or .22 from Pyramydair) or get the HW45 instead. I don't like the Diana 5.
Also do me a big favor, from Pyramyd air's site recommend 4-5 good pellets both in .177 and .22. I will get them the same time as I get the springer, recommend 4 makes as the fourth tin is free. I have already ordered Crossman Premier and RWS assorted Pack in .177 with the Pneumatic. Want to buy 12-16 more tins of 500. Also recommend any lubricants for the Pneumatic as well as the Springer.
I am posting the link to Pyramydair Pellets below:
Pyramydair Pellets
If you recommend the HW45, should I buy in .177 with 2 power levels, or go for the .22. This is going to be my hiking gun, used to shoot dove/quail sized critters(Hunting in USA, ? in India). If the .177 will kill, no need to buy the .22 then. In my experience, the old Diana 25 ARF had similar power to these Pistols, .177's used to kill Doves regularly, yet Pigeons used to fly away sometimes. Advise on this. If the hunting season was on, I could have borrowed somebody's Crossman Pump Pistol in .177 and at 8 Pumps/550 Fps checked it on Pigeons myself.
Thanks a million in advance!!
Satpal
PS:I appreciate the help, "Guru Dakshina" 200 Pellets from each of the 15 or so Tins I bring, I will send your way, as soon as I land.
Weihrauch HW 45
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Mack The Knife
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Re: Here she is - HW45 in .22" calibre.
Hi Nikos,
That link to the Turtle Wax rings a faint bell. I think I have seen it on a particular shop shelf. If I find it, I will do a batch in the 3:7 ratio and let you know how they perform.
Even though Dave Pope mentioned them in his letter, I would never use Prometheus pellets or any other plastic skirted pellet in my guns. I had asked Dave the question because my brother had brought back a box for me. Incidentally, are you aware that the inventor of the Prometheus, Paragon, etc. and owner of PAX Guns in London, Hugh Earl, is of Indian descent? A Keralite Jew to be precise.
Never used Pledge, though I have heard off it.
Don't know anything about tuning the 45 apart from the standard Venom instructions that come with a DIY kit.
Will definitely post if and when I get down to working on this pistol.
Mack The Knife
That link to the Turtle Wax rings a faint bell. I think I have seen it on a particular shop shelf. If I find it, I will do a batch in the 3:7 ratio and let you know how they perform.
Even though Dave Pope mentioned them in his letter, I would never use Prometheus pellets or any other plastic skirted pellet in my guns. I had asked Dave the question because my brother had brought back a box for me. Incidentally, are you aware that the inventor of the Prometheus, Paragon, etc. and owner of PAX Guns in London, Hugh Earl, is of Indian descent? A Keralite Jew to be precise.
Never used Pledge, though I have heard off it.
Don't know anything about tuning the 45 apart from the standard Venom instructions that come with a DIY kit.
Will definitely post if and when I get down to working on this pistol.
Mack The Knife
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Mack The Knife
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Re: Here she is - HW45 in .22" calibre.
Hi Satpal,
Barring the chrono session yesterday morning, I haven't been able to have a play with the 45.
I have only had Tempests, so it would be a bit difficult to choose between the HW45 and the Hurricane. If the H's trigger is anything like the Tempest, then go for the 45.
However, I have read owner reviews on forums and by all accounts the 45 would be the better of the two. Let's just say, I could have bought a new Hurricane for less than a second hand 45 but opted for the 45.
My suggestion is you try both side by side and then make your decision.
Before I recommend any pellets, I would need to know for which airgun they are meant.
I would not recommend an air-pistol at even 6 ft.lbs. for quail or dove. The muzzle energy is sufficient for upto 15 yards, even 20 yards but what about your accuracy? Unless you can hit both birds in the brain CONSISTENTLY, I suggest you look at buying an ultra carbine to serve your purposes. I am sorry but I will not advocate injuring of game regardless of the country and its hunting laws.
Thanks. A selection of various pellets is always a good thing to have at hand.
Mack The Knife
Barring the chrono session yesterday morning, I haven't been able to have a play with the 45.
I have only had Tempests, so it would be a bit difficult to choose between the HW45 and the Hurricane. If the H's trigger is anything like the Tempest, then go for the 45.
However, I have read owner reviews on forums and by all accounts the 45 would be the better of the two. Let's just say, I could have bought a new Hurricane for less than a second hand 45 but opted for the 45.
My suggestion is you try both side by side and then make your decision.
Before I recommend any pellets, I would need to know for which airgun they are meant.
I would not recommend an air-pistol at even 6 ft.lbs. for quail or dove. The muzzle energy is sufficient for upto 15 yards, even 20 yards but what about your accuracy? Unless you can hit both birds in the brain CONSISTENTLY, I suggest you look at buying an ultra carbine to serve your purposes. I am sorry but I will not advocate injuring of game regardless of the country and its hunting laws.
Be careful, I may only recommend the pellets I need.PS:I appreciate the help, "Guru Dakshina" 200 Pellets from each of the 15 or so Tins I bring, I will send your way, as soon as I land.
Thanks. A selection of various pellets is always a good thing to have at hand.Mack The Knife
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Crete
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Re: Here she is - HW45 in .22" calibre.
Mack The Knife,
Hugh is a buddy of mine. We are friends for years and have helped him in business deals in France, over the years.
Just last month we were talking about Fort Cochin's Jewish community and the oldest Synagogue in the world, there. In fact, while at Cochin, I stayed at the Kodar House, which is now a guest house extraordinaire, and Hugh had some interesting stories to tell about his family and the Kodar family! Hugh's maternal side's family had a shoe and boots factory that Sir Winston Churchill preferred to get his own (bought them in person in 1914) and the British Expeditionary Force's footwear from, during the First and Second World Wars. Very interesting fellow and a brilliant inventor.
His airgun pellet creations are in the cutting edge of technology and innovation, often met with criticism by people who have never used them.
I have in my collection most of his pellets and I have found the airguns that like them (not all do, of course). The HW 45, inparticular, shoots the Dynamic P1 (PPP, or tripple P) 6.9 grains very well indeed (4.5mm/.177 cal., only). The P1 penetrates most everything in it's path up to 20m (22yards). Also, the .22 cal. Paragon Z1 at 14.8 grains works very well in my Diana 27 .22 cal. air rifle. It groups like Match ammo.
The LOGUN pellets are made by Hugh, in lead, in the shape of the unleaded Dynamics. His FX 18 (grains) in .22 cal. are specifically suited to the Swedish FX Airguns (I am getting the semi-auto FX Monsoon soon), as they have flaired skirts. The FX 18 also shoot great in my FWB 127, similar or better to the JSB Exacts 15.8 grains and 5.52mm dia.
Here is a list of .22 cal. pellets that I have:
Cal. .22 PELLETS (33):
Prometheus 8.8
Cometa Magnum 11.4
Pellicano 12.4
H&N Hollow Point 12.5
Cometa 12.5
Bulldog Flat 12.8
RWS Diana 12.9
Dynamic Sn2 13.0
Crosman Copperhead Flat 13.8
Kovohute Diabolo Sport Flat 13.9
Gamo Match 14.0
Crosman Copperhead Pointed Hunting 14.2
Marksman 14.2
Benjamin Sheridan 14.3
Crosman Copperhead Wadcutter 14.3
Dynamic PCP2 14.5
Paragon Z1 14.8
Weihrauch F&T Special 14.8 [5.54mm dia.]
Crosman Copperhead Pointed 15.6
Bulldog Pointed 15.7
FX Premium 15.8 (same as JSB Exacts but cheaper) [5.52mm dia.]
H&N Pointed 15.8
Marksman Pointed 15.9
Logun Penetrator 16.0
H&N Silhouette 16.3
Dynamic Terminator TM2 17.0
FX 18 (for Revolution/Monsoon) 18.2
H&N Silver Point 18.5
Weihrauch Magnum 21.0
RWS Diana RASTATT 21.4 [5.52mm dia.]
H&N Diabolo Baracuda 21.7
Piledrivers / Exterminator 30.0
Eley Magnum 30.0
ngrewal,
The best hunting caliber for the HW 45 is the .20 (5.0mm). Second best is the .177 (4.5mm). Yet, the HW 45 is not suited for hunting (with the notable exception of rats), live game. Pigeons are particularly difficult to dispatch. They require a hit to the head or neck. That's too small an area for the HW 45 to accurately hit in hunting conditions, in any caliber at the normal pigeon-hunting distances. I would strongly recommend an accurate air rifle instead.
As, for pellets from Pyramid get both RWS Nobel and JSBs brands.
Cheers,
Nikos
Hugh is a buddy of mine. We are friends for years and have helped him in business deals in France, over the years.
Just last month we were talking about Fort Cochin's Jewish community and the oldest Synagogue in the world, there. In fact, while at Cochin, I stayed at the Kodar House, which is now a guest house extraordinaire, and Hugh had some interesting stories to tell about his family and the Kodar family! Hugh's maternal side's family had a shoe and boots factory that Sir Winston Churchill preferred to get his own (bought them in person in 1914) and the British Expeditionary Force's footwear from, during the First and Second World Wars. Very interesting fellow and a brilliant inventor.
His airgun pellet creations are in the cutting edge of technology and innovation, often met with criticism by people who have never used them.
I have in my collection most of his pellets and I have found the airguns that like them (not all do, of course). The HW 45, inparticular, shoots the Dynamic P1 (PPP, or tripple P) 6.9 grains very well indeed (4.5mm/.177 cal., only). The P1 penetrates most everything in it's path up to 20m (22yards). Also, the .22 cal. Paragon Z1 at 14.8 grains works very well in my Diana 27 .22 cal. air rifle. It groups like Match ammo.
The LOGUN pellets are made by Hugh, in lead, in the shape of the unleaded Dynamics. His FX 18 (grains) in .22 cal. are specifically suited to the Swedish FX Airguns (I am getting the semi-auto FX Monsoon soon), as they have flaired skirts. The FX 18 also shoot great in my FWB 127, similar or better to the JSB Exacts 15.8 grains and 5.52mm dia.
Here is a list of .22 cal. pellets that I have:
Cal. .22 PELLETS (33):
Prometheus 8.8
Cometa Magnum 11.4
Pellicano 12.4
H&N Hollow Point 12.5
Cometa 12.5
Bulldog Flat 12.8
RWS Diana 12.9
Dynamic Sn2 13.0
Crosman Copperhead Flat 13.8
Kovohute Diabolo Sport Flat 13.9
Gamo Match 14.0
Crosman Copperhead Pointed Hunting 14.2
Marksman 14.2
Benjamin Sheridan 14.3
Crosman Copperhead Wadcutter 14.3
Dynamic PCP2 14.5
Paragon Z1 14.8
Weihrauch F&T Special 14.8 [5.54mm dia.]
Crosman Copperhead Pointed 15.6
Bulldog Pointed 15.7
FX Premium 15.8 (same as JSB Exacts but cheaper) [5.52mm dia.]
H&N Pointed 15.8
Marksman Pointed 15.9
Logun Penetrator 16.0
H&N Silhouette 16.3
Dynamic Terminator TM2 17.0
FX 18 (for Revolution/Monsoon) 18.2
H&N Silver Point 18.5
Weihrauch Magnum 21.0
RWS Diana RASTATT 21.4 [5.52mm dia.]
H&N Diabolo Baracuda 21.7
Piledrivers / Exterminator 30.0
Eley Magnum 30.0
ngrewal,
The best hunting caliber for the HW 45 is the .20 (5.0mm). Second best is the .177 (4.5mm). Yet, the HW 45 is not suited for hunting (with the notable exception of rats), live game. Pigeons are particularly difficult to dispatch. They require a hit to the head or neck. That's too small an area for the HW 45 to accurately hit in hunting conditions, in any caliber at the normal pigeon-hunting distances. I would strongly recommend an accurate air rifle instead.
As, for pellets from Pyramid get both RWS Nobel and JSBs brands.
Cheers,
Nikos
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Mack The Knife
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Re: Here she is - HW45 in .22" calibre.
HA! Imagine that!Hugh is a buddy of mine. We are friends for years....
Some very interesting snippets there as well.
Asif, was it you who said that Winston had his cigars rolled in Trichy?
Another snippet, one which you most probably know off but others might not, concerns Gerald Cardew - considered to be THE airgun boffin. He was born in Kumaon. There must have been something special in the Indian waters back then. Now all we seem to produce is assorted junk.
Perhaps but there have also been cases where these pellets (Dynamics) have produced patterns rather than groups and Bob Ruggles did Hugh Earl no favours by constanly pushing them on the Airgun BBS. Now that you mention it, I do have a small selection of Dynamics. I don't quite recall how they performed group wise but the penetration was a bit too much - went through a fully grown coconut at approximately 20 yards. Not for me, thank you.His airgun pellet creations are in the cutting edge of technology and innovation, often met with criticism by people who have never used them.
The lead version of the Dynamics I have yet to try and I see he has brought out something new as well recently - the Piledriver. Have you given these a go? Frightfully expensive at 6 quid for a box of 100 pellets.
Fredrik Axelsson (did I get the spelling right?) is another boffin and I have always had an interest in his creations. Pity, he does not make the effort to answer his e-mails though...
Mack The Knife
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eljefe
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Old trivia Mack The Knife, the hand rolled trichnoply cigars were his daily staple...must have saved the Romeo y Julietas for 'specials' like VJ day!
I believe , for quite some time post 47, there was a regular courier run from Tiruchinapalli to UK for the old man's cigars.
Got myself a box of prometheus-memory fails me on the exact model- about 20 yrs ago-I used them in a National 35 (?) allegedly were capable of going through a service helmet of the Brit squaddy-used in N Ireland for the same purpose and subsequently banned...any substantiation on this?
Best
Axx
I believe , for quite some time post 47, there was a regular courier run from Tiruchinapalli to UK for the old man's cigars.
Got myself a box of prometheus-memory fails me on the exact model- about 20 yrs ago-I used them in a National 35 (?) allegedly were capable of going through a service helmet of the Brit squaddy-used in N Ireland for the same purpose and subsequently banned...any substantiation on this?
Best
Axx
''It dont mean a thing, if it aint got that zing!''
"...Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away..."
"...Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away..."
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Crete
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Re: Here she is - HW45 in .22" calibre.
Mack The Knife,
Indeed!
Hugh can bring you in contact with Fredrik.
As for the piledrivers, I like the 30 grains .22 cal. It shoots great! The .177 cal. 21 grains needs more testing and research, unless you happen to have a very powerful airgun that likes them.
The 21grains (4.5mm) is not perfected, yet. The ideal grainage must be around the 7.9, 8.2 and 9.5 benchmarks. The LOGUN Penetrator and the FX 18 are Hugh's top creations. These are better than anything [in the same category], floating around.
eljefe,
That's an urban myth if not competitor's calomnie. They are not banned anywhere. Northern Ireland? Pellets? LOL!!!! With all due respect, you are way off base.
Cheers,
Nikos
Indeed!
Hugh can bring you in contact with Fredrik.
As for the piledrivers, I like the 30 grains .22 cal. It shoots great! The .177 cal. 21 grains needs more testing and research, unless you happen to have a very powerful airgun that likes them.
The 21grains (4.5mm) is not perfected, yet. The ideal grainage must be around the 7.9, 8.2 and 9.5 benchmarks. The LOGUN Penetrator and the FX 18 are Hugh's top creations. These are better than anything [in the same category], floating around.
eljefe,
That's an urban myth if not competitor's calomnie. They are not banned anywhere. Northern Ireland? Pellets? LOL!!!! With all due respect, you are way off base.
Cheers,
Nikos
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Mack The Knife
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Re: Here she is - HW45 in .22" calibre.
Asif,
100 Prometheus through a National! I hope it wasn't you who had to sit and clean the bore, especially one that has a tight twist rate like the National. Those pellets left behind plastic shavings from the driving band and skirt and were a pain to remove. Especially for chaps like us who did not have the appropriate solvents.
No idea if the Prometheus were banned in NI but they are available in mainland U.K..
Mack The Knife
100 Prometheus through a National! I hope it wasn't you who had to sit and clean the bore, especially one that has a tight twist rate like the National. Those pellets left behind plastic shavings from the driving band and skirt and were a pain to remove. Especially for chaps like us who did not have the appropriate solvents.
No idea if the Prometheus were banned in NI but they are available in mainland U.K..
Mack The Knife
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Crete
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Re: Here she is - HW45 in .22" calibre.
Mack The Knife,
When the bore is clean and Pledge, or other furniture bee's wax products are used to spray lightly the saboted Prometheus/Paragon pellets (on a piece of brown paper and let dry overnight), they shoot straight and leave no nylon threading traces in the bore; it's that simple.
There is no point switching lead with nylon, without passing a Bore Snake through the bore. I even use a Bore Snake before switching pellet brands.
There are some fine details in airgun shooting that are user friendly, if only fellow shooters bothered to share their experiences, instead of using valuable bandwidth for disseminating nonsense (you only need to look at the Yellow Forum and the BBS to see how much misinformation and disinformation -- one is unintentional and the other is done on purpose), that continues to circulate for years on end.
Present company exempted, of course
Cheers,
Nikos
When the bore is clean and Pledge, or other furniture bee's wax products are used to spray lightly the saboted Prometheus/Paragon pellets (on a piece of brown paper and let dry overnight), they shoot straight and leave no nylon threading traces in the bore; it's that simple.
There is no point switching lead with nylon, without passing a Bore Snake through the bore. I even use a Bore Snake before switching pellet brands.
There are some fine details in airgun shooting that are user friendly, if only fellow shooters bothered to share their experiences, instead of using valuable bandwidth for disseminating nonsense (you only need to look at the Yellow Forum and the BBS to see how much misinformation and disinformation -- one is unintentional and the other is done on purpose), that continues to circulate for years on end.
Present company exempted, of course
Cheers,
Nikos
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Sujay
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Re: Here she is - HW45 in .22" calibre.
Nikos,Crete";p="10003 wrote: disseminating nonsense (you only need to look at the Yellow Forum and the BBS to see how much misinformation and disinformation --Nikos
By BBS which site you are referring to ? You can PM me if reluctant to name it here.
A man should have a hobby. It keeps him out of trouble.
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Crete
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Re: Here she is - HW45 in .22" calibre.
Sujay,
This one.
Airgun BBS http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/
Lots of drivel. Just one good piece of info or an insight every 6 months, on average!
Lots of scaremongering and little imagination. For private sales it is good though.
Best airgun web sites/Forums (in no particular order):
1. American Vintage Airguns (AVA) and related sites http://www.network54.com/Forum/405945/
2. Dianawerk Collective http://www.network54.com/Forum/184474/
3. Jim Maccari's Forum: http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=22461
and of course Indians For Guns!
Cheers,
Nikos
This one.
Airgun BBS http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/
Lots of drivel. Just one good piece of info or an insight every 6 months, on average!
Lots of scaremongering and little imagination. For private sales it is good though.
Best airgun web sites/Forums (in no particular order):
1. American Vintage Airguns (AVA) and related sites http://www.network54.com/Forum/405945/
2. Dianawerk Collective http://www.network54.com/Forum/184474/
3. Jim Maccari's Forum: http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=22461
and of course Indians For Guns!
Cheers,
Nikos
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Mack The Knife
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Re: my new prize possession HW 45
Ranjeet was the first off the blocks with a HW75 - a more refined 45 minus the higher muzzle energy. However, he has been making noises about getting a 45 as well.
Nikos and I bought our respective 45s at around the same time - Christmas holidays.
Rahul received his 45 a day after I got mine.
TC is planning to get one in a couple of months as well.
Looks like Satpal will most probably go for one. Especially if it has a Beretta sticker. (That's a joke, don't lynch me!)
So that makes six. Not bad for a small forum, eh?
Inder would have made it seven but made some excuse about having to buy a shotty... Knowing him, he will end up with neither.
Badshah and Mahesh would have made it nine but they want the recoilless air/co2 pistols. Girlies!
Mack The Knife
Nikos and I bought our respective 45s at around the same time - Christmas holidays.
Rahul received his 45 a day after I got mine.
TC is planning to get one in a couple of months as well.
Looks like Satpal will most probably go for one. Especially if it has a Beretta sticker.
(That's a joke, don't lynch me!)So that makes six. Not bad for a small forum, eh?
Inder would have made it seven but made some excuse about having to buy a shotty... Knowing him, he will end up with neither.
Badshah and Mahesh would have made it nine but they want the recoilless air/co2 pistols. Girlies!
Would you get a buyer? I mean, it's a Bolero.... Go on then join the club.Congratulations to all you lucky sods...somebody please stop me...this time the jeep will have to go.
Mack The Knife
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TC
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- Location: Kolkata
Re: my new prize possession HW 45
Mack The Knife, seems I am under pressure from within to be the sixth HW 45 owner..
your quote : " You are next TC."
I will be in Singapore in the last week of March. But the laws are pretty strict and looking for guns, air or otherwise, wouldnt be of much help I suppose. Best option is Hong Kong and Manila. So will have to make stopovers.
Now somebody told me in all south east asian countries Diana, HW etc sent their products after detuning ... something like a limit of upto 20 joules as per local laws.
So its really no point buying anything here, if this is true.
Mack The Knife, Nicos, Ranjeet, Rahul whats your suggestion.
Will wait for your reply before I finalise my travel plan.
TC
your quote : " You are next TC."
I will be in Singapore in the last week of March. But the laws are pretty strict and looking for guns, air or otherwise, wouldnt be of much help I suppose. Best option is Hong Kong and Manila. So will have to make stopovers.
Now somebody told me in all south east asian countries Diana, HW etc sent their products after detuning ... something like a limit of upto 20 joules as per local laws.
So its really no point buying anything here, if this is true.
Mack The Knife, Nicos, Ranjeet, Rahul whats your suggestion.
Will wait for your reply before I finalise my travel plan.
TC
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Mack The Knife
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Hi TC,
I have no idea what the power levels are in South East Asia.
However, if it is 20 Joules, then that converts to 14.75 ft.lbs.. That's not too shabby for an air-rifle - particularly in .177" calibre. Infact, it's close to the limit for something like a HW77K in .177" calibre.
The Brits need an FAC (Arms Licenece) for anything over 12 ft.lbs.
Can you not pop over to KL? I will ask a friend there about the availability of HW45s if you like.
Mack The Knife
I have no idea what the power levels are in South East Asia.
However, if it is 20 Joules, then that converts to 14.75 ft.lbs.. That's not too shabby for an air-rifle - particularly in .177" calibre. Infact, it's close to the limit for something like a HW77K in .177" calibre.
The Brits need an FAC (Arms Licenece) for anything over 12 ft.lbs.
Can you not pop over to KL? I will ask a friend there about the availability of HW45s if you like.
Mack The Knife
Last edited by Mack The Knife on Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.