How necessary is training for the hobby?

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Shyam_kanaka
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How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by Shyam_kanaka » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:17 pm

Hi, I am shyam from Bangalore and I am 24 years old. I came across the Target shooting as a sport recently. For the last few weeks I am spending an hour a week at the range as a guest shooter.
Now I have an option to take up a begginers course that's of 8 classes of 1.5 hours each, or is it a better idea to invest on precihole sp60 gun for almost same price. I an choose only one.
Considering Target shooting as just an hobby , I thought of buying a gun. But what's a wiser decision, is it necessary to finish the beginner training? What exactly is thought in a training other than the practice?

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timmy
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Re: How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by timmy » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:06 am

The value in training, presuming the trainer is qualified, should be apparent to you now, as you have been shooting over the last few weeks. You should already have perceived that shooting is much more than lining up the sights and pulling the trigger. It involves a lot of self-control that's needed to master the proper techniques, and then to implement those techniques consistently. You need to know what to do, and do it every time, and then your body and mind become a machine that you will use to shoot effectively.

The danger to not training is that you can develop bad shooting habits, which are then difficult to break.

Now, having said this, I must note that I was never trained. Nobody i've ever shot with has even offered any criticism of my technique. I wonder how much better I might be, if I had been able to receive effective training.

But, if you buy the air rifle, you will always have the primary tool at hand. Your training will require you to practice consistently to retain the benefits of training -- not all of them, but shooting is an activity that requires consistent practice, like playing a piano or playing pool/billiards/snooker. You have to keep at it. You can, at least, get out an fiddle around with an air rifle and have some fun every now and then.

But in the end, only you can answer this question.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

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Shivakr
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Re: How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by Shivakr » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:28 am

I came back to plinking / target practice after a gap of about 15 years. I have bought a sp60 and I practice at my home garden. I mostly shoot on paper target at 10m. I have been reading this forum, blogs, seeing YouTube videos, shooting with my sp60 & learning something everyday.

Precihole SP60 air pistol is very well made & accurate.. but it’s a springer & am not sure if it will be a good starter AP if u want to get in serious competition 10m type target shooting. If possible try shooting few pellets with sp60 in your club before buying. Others can help but I don’t think there is any other manufacturer in India making good air pistol.

Few days back I had seen on Precihole’s website a photo of air pistol have model NP60 embossed (now removed, but I have the photo saved but don’t know how to upload here).. do check with them if they are coming with upgraded AP soon. (Do share with us any info u receive from them).

Between spending on training & buying air pistol, which ever you choose.. u will enjoy .. Happy Shooting ..

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Re: How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by dalvipravin » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:42 pm

Hi shivakar ,

You said you came back after 15 years .. so you was a shooter before ?

I was at national level back in late 90s ..doing 10 meter peep sight , I had been trained and was even a trainer back till 2004 ..

Got out of shooting , started back with Diana 460 in 2018 :) but I stil remeber the technique it's just a matter of practice

Assuming the trainer is a good one , get the courses done , and then practice .

It's always good to learn it right way and practice right way , obviously then every individual develops his own flavour of shooting style but it's always good to start with a training :)

Unfortunately buying is also equally important if you are doing it for fun and not going to use club weapon ..get the learning and you can buy of your choice anytime

Cheers,
Pravin

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Shivakr
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Re: How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by Shivakr » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:35 am

dalvipravin wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:42 pm
Hi shivakar ,

You said you came back after 15 years .. so you was a shooter before ?

I was at national level back in late 90s ..doing 10 meter peep sight , I had been trained and was even a trainer back till 2004 ..

Got out of shooting , started back with Diana 460 in 2018 :) but I stil remeber the technique it's just a matter of practice

Assuming the trainer is a good one , get the courses done , and then practice .

It's always good to learn it right way and practice right way , obviously then every individual develops his own flavour of shooting style but it's always good to start with a training :)

Unfortunately buying is also equally important if you are doing it for fun and not going to use club weapon ..get the learning and you can buy of your choice anytime

Cheers,
Pravin

I was not into competitive shooting.. but was fortunate to have access to airguns at early age.. when most guys were watching cricket on tv, I was in my garden with the airgun.

I had Diana 54 air rifle, baikal izh 46, Diana model 10 air pistol and few Indian make airguns. Did go to rifle club sometimes. After college when I joined a job didn’t find much time and sold all the airguns.

It was during the lockdown days, I again had the urge to buy one. Was totally out of touch with current airgun scene and spent good time reading this forum. I was totally surprised when I saw the Precihole website & read about their airguns in this forum. I bought SP60 air pistol.

I spend time in my garden. I mostly shoot at paper target at 10 mtrs. I should have kept the Diana model 10. I want to pick something like Weihrauch HW45 / HW75, Diana LP8 or FAS 6004..

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Re: How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by dalvipravin » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:43 am

Hi Shivakr

Glad to know you had so good guns back then.... Yes hw45 75 are very very good guns ..you should try plinking you will enjoy that more with pistol :)

Make your own targets and spinners ,

Cheers ,
Pravin

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Re: How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by partheus » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:49 am

If you're really enthusiastic about shooting, then do consider investing in proper training. As mentioned by Timmy, you can easily end up with improper technique without even realizing it. As you start, one day you're on fire, hitting the 10 ring effortlessly again and again, but the very next day you won't even hit the target area if your life depended on it. You need proper instruction to make sense of why this happens and how to deal with it.

Shooting requires you to stay as still as possible. More movement = greater chance of the shot going astray. Only the human body doesn't like staying still. Your body will move around ever so slightly even when you're just sitting or standing idly. Body movement only increases when you hold a pistol or rifle as the weapon is an additional weight, usually held with outstretched arm(s), which is an unnatural position for the body to be in.

Shooting technique helps you develop balance, hand-eye coordination, body stability, grip, psychological makeup, all of which are required to keep your body still while keeping the sights aligned. A coach will first instruct you on how to achieve stillness while holding a gun and then acts like a neutral observer who can watch what you're doing and correct you when you veer off course.

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Re: How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by Bishop » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:22 pm

Shivakr wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:28 am
Few days back I had seen on Precihole’s website a photo of air pistol have model NP60 embossed (now removed, but I have the photo saved but don’t know how to upload here).. do check with them if they are coming with upgraded AP soon.
I don't mean to hijack this thread,but NP60 could be Precihole's Nitro piston version of SP60 pistol.
You can upload the pics here either as an attachment or by uploading it on social media sites and sharing the link to the same.

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Shivakr
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Re: How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by Shivakr » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:58 am

Bishop wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:22 pm
Shivakr wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:28 am
Few days back I had seen on Precihole’s website a photo of air pistol have model NP60 embossed (now removed, but I have the photo saved but don’t know how to upload here).. do check with them if they are coming with upgraded AP soon.
I don't mean to hijack this thread,but NP60 could be Precihole's Nitro piston version of SP60 pistol.
You can upload the pics here either as an attachment or by uploading it on social media sites and sharing the link to the same.
Posted the image in the thread I started in NP60.
Link: viewtopic.php?t=28035

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timmy
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Re: How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by timmy » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:34 am

Partheus is exactly right! My Wife and I were just discussing her knitting and quilting a minute ago, prompting me to write.

The issue of muscle memory, and the underlying need for training and correct technique, is necessary to really excel in shooting (or in pool/billiards/snooker, golf, bowling, and so many other sports).

I don't mean to digress and bring up an unpleasant subject here, but last year, there was a church shooting outside of Ft Worth. A kook came in with a sawed off shotgun under his coat and killed two people, and one of the church's security team pulled his pistol and dropped the kook with one shot to the head, a fairly long distance away. (This could all be seen on a security video posted online.)

As it turned out, the church security person was not only highly trained in handgun defensive techniques, he was also a trainer in these techniques who had been doing this for a long time. He was practiced, and in practice, to a high degree.

When the time came, he was able to put his weapon into action and put a bullet spot on target from a long distance, with a perfectly placed head shot -- a difficult shot in any case (but, due to the crowd, the only one available to instantly disable the attacker).

I recognize that we're talking about target shooting here, and not self-defense, but the principle I'm trying to illustrate is exactly the same. Target shooting is different from defensive shooting, yes, but the same principle of motor skills, practice, and building muscle memory is the same. You are teaching your body to be a machine, and to do the same thing all of the time. Then, while you are concentrating on your technique, a lot of the concentration is subconscious.

You put yourself up on the firing line and set "the machine" -- you -- to work.

This can only be done with a large amount of practice, and it is a great advantage if someone knowledgable (an obviously necessary part; knowledgable isn't the same as know-it-all!) can get you started on the right technique from the start. Yes, it is possible to teach yourself, and you may be able to do fairly well, but you will never know whether you could have done better, because some little habit prevents you from climbing to the next step.

I don't shoot air guns. I've often thought that I should buy an air rifle and air pistol to attempt to increase my value to the board here. However, that's not likely to happen.

In India, with the terribly oppressive gun laws, I strongly believe that everyone would profit from an active shooting regimen with both air rifles and pistols. Yes, it's not exactly the same as shooting firearms, but the mechanics and muscle memory that you would be learning are very similar in many ways, and I can't see any downside to a lot of air rifle and pistol practice at all. The limitation on ammunition quotas seems to me to make it almost mandatory to do this, if you really want to excel in shooting.

The parallel that I'd draw here is that of an accomplished poker player, to whom the amount of the bet or the money in the game is relatively unimportant. Instead, winning is the thing, and money is but a way to keep score. When the poker player ignores a less valuable game as unimportant, they cease to be a "real" poker player.

While working and waiting for reasonable gun laws, use the poker player's attitude and, whether shooting air guns or firearms, stress what you are DOING, rather than what you are shooting. Like the poker player, whether you are shooting this or that isn't the issue, the issue is that you are shooting, and when you are doing it, you want to do it the best you can in every way and at all times with every kind of gun.

That, I would say, is the mark of a true shooter. (No pun intended!)
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

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Shivakr
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Re: How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by Shivakr » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:06 am

I do understand the importance of training under a good coach whether shooting for competition or as a hobby..

I came across a thread in this forum on Pistol Shooting, am reading the same.. hope Shyam (thread starter) will find it useful too.. link below.

viewtopic.php?t=7407

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Re: How necessary is training for the hobby?

Post by Juaristi » Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:58 pm

I joined a Club to be trained .
In reality any training there was not coaching - the trainer explained only the basics , then after making sure I was safe to practice on my own ....walked away .
Coaching is different and more 'hands-on ' , picking up on errors that I or you may not be aware off when holding , aiming etc etc.
It depends on what exactly is being offered for the fee .
From my own limited Club experience - it will be the basics only , then self practice which you are paying for ( and can do somewhere else safely for free ) .
Practice makes perfect .
You can practice on your own after learning the basics - if you have somewhere safe and with legal permission .
My suggestion - with apologies to the other members - as money is so hard to earn - spend it on your SP60 .

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