If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

The legal aspects of owning, shooting, importing arms/ ammo and other related legal aspects as well as any other legal queries. Please note: This INCLUDES all arms licensing issues/ queries!
Indians4Guns
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If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by Indians4Guns » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:46 pm

If I bring my handgun to India under transfer of residency, do I loose my citizenship in U.S?

After TR, is there any amount of time I must stay in India? I spend 3-4 months in India every year.


Thank you.

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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by goodboy_mentor » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:09 pm

If I bring my handgun to India under transfer of residency, do I loose my citizenship in U.S?
Are you an Indian citizen or an American citizen? AFAIK TR is applicable to Indian citizens coming back home after stay abroad for a certain period(for details/conditions please refer website of Indian Customs regarding bringing in firearms under TR rules)
After TR, is there any amount of time I must stay in India? I spend 3-4 months in India every year.
Traveling abroad constitutes part of Right to Life and Liberty guaranteed under Article 21 of Constitution of India. If an Indian citizen has residence in India, it does not mean he cannot go overseas for any purpose, for any particular duration. There are many Indian citizens who have arms licenses but are not always in India. Usually they get any of their family member/relative endorsed on license as retainer or deposit the firearms with an arms dealer.
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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by Indians4Guns » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:12 pm

Are you an Indian citizen or an American citizen? AFAIK TR is applicable to Indian citizens coming back home after stay abroad for a certain period(for details/conditions please refer website of Indian Customs regarding bringing in firearms under TR rules)

I have dual citizenship of USA and India. Can I still do TR?

Thanks

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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by shooter » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:05 pm

I have dual citizenship of USA and India.


Im not even sure if that exists.

how did you manage to retain your indian passport?
You want more gun control? Use both hands!

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One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.

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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by goodboy_mentor » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:26 pm

I have dual citizenship of USA and India.
Not possible. If any Indian citizen takes up citizenship of any other country, he no more remains an Indian citizen. As per Article 9 of Constitution of India:
No person shall be a citizen of India by virtue of article 5, or be deemed to be a citizen of India by virtue of article 6 or article 8, if he has voluntarily acquired the citizenship of any foreign State.
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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by xl_target » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:18 am

The US says the same thing. You have to renounce citizenship to all other countries, if you are a US citizen.
Do you actually have two passports? One Indian and one US?

A transfer of residence usually means that you are coming back to India to live permanently. It helps you avoid some of the custom formalities so you can bring back your household items, etc.
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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by full_circle » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:40 am

Indians4Guns wrote: I have dual citizenship of USA and India.
I4G, If you have a US passport, you may have the PIO or the OCI. These cards do not grant citizenship of India, nor do they allow the holder to vote, or stand for elections or apply for government jobs. All they do is take care of the visa and registration requirements of travel, and give holders parity with NRIs in economic, financial and education fields... i.e. allow the holder to invest in Indian financial products, buy non-agricultural land and immovable property in India, and benefit from NRI quota in educational institutions.
Last edited by full_circle on Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by Indians4Guns » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:23 am

Im not even sure if that exists.

how did you manage to retain your indian passport?
What happens is, after NRIs become citizen of U.S, they loose their Indian citizenship. After that some of us apply for dual-citizenship to get OCI (over seas citizen of India) card. Once that received, an NRI becomes citizen of both the nation, we can do everything an Indian citizen can expect vote and do government and agriculture job.

-- Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:28 am --
Do you actually have two passports? One Indian and one US?
No, I just have one U.S passport with Indian visa card, and one Indian two page card that says certification of registration, videshi bhartiya nagrik.

-- Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:35 am --

According to this website http://www.immihelp.com/nri/india/travel/import.html

IMPORT OF FIRE ARMS AS BAGGAGE
Import of firearms is strictly prohibited. Import of Cartridges in excess of 50 is also prohibited. However, in the case of persons transferring their residence (as per conditions specified in the rules) to India for a minimum period of one year, one firearm of permissible bore can be allowed to be imported subject to the conditions that:
the same was in possession and use abroad by the passenger for a minimum period of one year and also subject to the condition that such firearm, after clearance, shall not be sold, loaned, transferred or otherwise parted with, for consideration or otherwise, during the lifetime of such person
the firearms can be allowed in such cases on payment of applicable duty provided the passenger has a valid arms license from the local authorities.



To be very sure, I might just have to check this issue with a lawyer in India.

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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by hamiclar01 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:09 am

Indians4Guns wrote:
What happens is, after NRIs become citizen of U.S, they loose their Indian citizenship. After that some of us apply for dual-citizenship to get OCI (over seas citizen of India) card. Once that received, an NRI becomes citizen of both the nation, we can do everything an Indian citizen can expect vote and do government and agriculture job.
Let me start by clarifying that an OCI card is not "Dual citizenship" (we wish it were). You are not an Indian national, period.

You are an American citizen with an OCI card. The latter eases travel issues/buying non agricultural land, getting a non govt job and your children on NRI quotas among other things.

I don't know if TR is applicable to foreigners moving to India. Are you planning such a move?

You can, if you want, join the queue for an Indian arms license, as a foreign national, which will let you buy IOF products, or overpriced foriegn guns, as you will be unable to import any.

Which begs the second question. If you have an american passport, which means you plan to stay there for the rest of your life, why do you want to bring a gun to India on a TR anyway?
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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by shooter » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:29 am

Let me start by clarifying that an OCI card is not "Dual citizenship" (we wish it were).

:agree:

In fact we are one of the very few countries in the world who dont have this dual citizenship thing.

-- 09 Mar 2011, 22:07 --
The US says the same thing. You have to renounce citizenship to all other countries, if you are a US citizen.


Please note that that too is not true.

It is difficult (or used to be) but not impossible to be a dual citizen of the US.
You want more gun control? Use both hands!

God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.

One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.

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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by full_circle » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:05 am

shooter wrote:In fact we are one of the very few countries in the world who dont have this dual citizenship thing.
On the contrary, most countries of the world prohibit / discourage / do not recognise multiple citizenship.
Source:
Citizenship Laws of the World: A Directory by the Federal Investigative Services Division of the U.S. Office of Personnel Management (2001)
http://www.opm.gov/extra/investigate/IS-01.pdf

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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by shooter » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:14 am

full_circle wrote:
shooter wrote:In fact we are one of the very few countries in the world who dont have this dual citizenship thing.
On the contrary, most countries of the world prohibit / discourage / do not recognise multiple citizenship.
Source:
Citizenship Laws of the World: A Directory by the Federal Investigative Services Division of the U.S. Office of Personnel Management (2001)
http://www.opm.gov/extra/investigate/IS-01.pdf
Dear full circle.

i am quite shocked to see this report.

Maybe it is an old one or i dont know what.

London is one of the most culturally diverse places in the world.

I have friends and colleagues from most of the continents and countries in the world (first generation immigrants). Most of them have 2 passports.
In fact all are surprised to hear our country doesnt allow it. Our neighbours pakistan also allows it.

I didnt have the time to go through the whole report in detail. For e.g.In the report you submitted, i stopped at australia since i know for a fact that it allows dual citizenship. yes i mean two passports. So do the carribean countries mentioned in the list.

My answer is based on my experience based on interacting with the people from various countries.

Europe allows it, most arabs do (except if the second country is israel). Many african countries do even the so called 'poor' ones.

Most commonwealth (except india). Canada does. Cant recall other friends but will post if i do.

I am still not sure why the report says what it does
You want more gun control? Use both hands!

God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.

One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.

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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by hamiclar01 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:45 am

shooter wrote: I am still not sure why the report says what it does
The report was published in 2001. It must have taken them at least a few years to compile it. Thus it is probably more than 11 years (at least 10) old.
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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by shooter » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:20 am

Sometimes internet is not your best friend- eh?
You want more gun control? Use both hands!

God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.

One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.

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Re: If done transfer of residency, do I loose my U.S citizenship

Post by Roland » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:32 am

Hello friends,

I would like to clarify some points based on my experience.

1) I am an OCI card holder. Visit http://www.mha.nic.in for all related queries.
From my point of view it would be wrong to say that I am a total foreigner with a few privileges in India instead I would say that I am an Indian citizen according to the citizenship act 1955/56 and holding a foreign passport but with restriction on certain privileges normally applicable to indian citizens.

2) TR facility is not only for indian citizens.
I have imported a yamaha bt1100 bike under TR without any glitch.
The clause of staying in india for a certain period after TR has been abolished.

The only thing endorsed on the bike registration card was that it could not be sold for two years since the day of import.
Also can avail another TR for another vehicle import after five years.

3) The clause where a fire arm brought under TR could not be sold is now reduced to 10 years.

4) I have a retainers licence and also in the process to get my own license shortly which has already been cleared by the police.
The law secretary ruled that the arms act says that the person has to be a citizen and I am a citizen under citizenship act (OCI).

5) The OCI privileges does not bar holding fire arms and also has expanded the heirloom category to OCI,s and inlaws in the family.

Some day I intend bringing a fire arm under TR.

Hope this helps.

Roland.

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