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The Attack of 26/11

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drifter
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby drifter » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:14 pm

Guys

Posting some of my thoughts here I hope nobody takes offence with my views

StampMaster wrote: In some the 2 female victims were attacked with kitchen knife and the scene went on for 5 mins with a 1000 people on the road and just 2 thugs. But no one dared to face the situation (i dint dared to)


The problem with us Indians is that most of us are not united, in situations like these we are mute spectators and we only react after the situation is over and rant about it. It is common in India to see in a accident situation the injured is struggling and people only watch by the time someone in the crowd takes a first step it is already late.

I think if a system of drafting is introduced and made mandatory it will help. Most Indians are not disciplined and take things for granted. When I was in school I was a part of the NCC for 3 years the only thing I ever learned to do is march and no other skill was developed(was taken to the shooting range once), hence everybody was looking for a way out including myself. Drafting with a dynamic view of overall skills being developed like shooting, self defense, situation awareness etc.., at grass roots level according to me is the only way our country will become safer and develop.

Guys give me your opinion on drafting and the impact it will have in our country,

Regards,
drifter.
Last edited by drifter on Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Skyman
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby Skyman » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:17 pm

People in this country like to watch.Even if there is an accident, how many do you think have bothered to learn how to deal with it?


I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

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timmy
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby timmy » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:06 am

@pistolero:
BUT my point is these terrorists went unstopped and unchallenged! with absolutely no fear of a retaliation!!Coz they knew, no one would have any weapons to fire back!!


My understanding of these 26/11 people is that no challenge would have fazed them in the slightest. The one that survived was sold by his father to the terrorists to be a martyr, because the father needed the money for his 3 daughters' dowries. Some of the terrorists had never even seen a flat screen TV and from the accounts that I read, the control over the phone had to nag them because they were too busy gawking into the rooms in the Taj to shoot people. They were told that when they were martyred, their bodies would radiate a special glow and give off a fragrant aroma. Now tell me: anyone who has committed to die doing these acts under the idea that they will leave behind a glowing and aromatic corpse -- do you really think someone waving a pop gun around is going to make them think twice? Feel threatened? Hey, they went there to die! They aren't going to feel threatened by anything. And if any more come, is it going to deter them? They haven't even heard of flat screen TVs! How will they hear about civilians armed with IOF 32s?

It's wonderful to have pride, but that's hardly going to stop a bunch of people who are showing up with the idea that they won't survive their evil deeds.

A few years back, here in the USA, we had a few goons who robbed a bank. They were armed with automatic weapons (cant recall offhand if they were AKs or ARs; maybe someone else will) and they had bullet proof vests on. The cops and the SWAT team showed up and rained lead on them, but it took quite a bit to stop them. They were not the least intimidated by the cops and all of their firepower. Someone with this sort of mindset is hardly going to be deterred by some poor civilian packing a handgun.

I hear your frustration. If I were one of those unfortunate souls trapped in the railway station, the Taj, or the Oberoi, for sure I'd be very happy to have an IOF 32 in my hand when I heard them coming down the hall. But realistically, short of a very lucky chance, this won't stop these kinds of people, and it certainly won't deter them. They have a far different mindset from the folks you climbed into the ring to box.

@drifter:
I think if a system of drafting is introduced and made mandatory it will help. ...Guys give me your opinion on drafting and the impact it will have in our country,


Where will the tax money come from to pay the wages of millions of additional soldiers? Does the government have that kind of money ready to pay for enlarging the armed forces this much?


Regards,
tim

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gladiatorgarg
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby gladiatorgarg » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:19 am

Well gentlemen the matter of fact is that on that fateful night every one was completely lost for first 2-3 hours no one had a clear picture of the actual happenings,evry one thought that it was an inter gang battle going on,talk about NSG!!no doubt they are the best but what about that infantry battalion which was present at colaba a strength of almost 750 armed to the teeth well trained force who are expert in ci/ct ops n freshly back from the valley :shock: :shock: why they were not pressed into service immediately once their was a clearer picture :!: :!: why wait for 24 hours for the NSG :?: :?: so their is a drastic need of change in decision making process and you cannot replace raw gut with any weapon and in this field no force1/any body can beat an indian army jawan/officer since we are cleaning this shit for donkeys ages...so far as drafting goes in a country like India we must enforce it with sops as well..so that people are motivated to join it and we have a habit of fizzling out midway..the momentum has to be be maintained...and gentlemen believe me its just the begining with a nuclear armed neighbor and political turmoil within itself and radicals having a free run anything is possible



drifter
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby drifter » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:06 pm

Dear Timmy,

timmy wrote:Where will the tax money come from to pay the wages of millions of additional soldiers? Does the government have that kind of money ready to pay for enlarging the armed forces this much?


I pay my taxes, most Indians who pay taxes I am sure are of the opinion that only 10% of paid taxes go towards infrastructure development. My point is if we have a system of drafting 1 or 2 years of military training compulsory for students after 12th the future generations will be more aware and better equipped mentally to deal in situations like terrorism. I did not mean we need to enlarge our armed forces full time. Just by arming our people we will not get results.

Skyman wrote:People in this country like to watch.Even if there is an accident, how many do you think have bothered to learn how to deal with it?


Like skyman said most of us are only spectators, even though accidents are common in our country do our students and citizens get trained in accident first aid adequately?. I feel vital things like first aid, drafting for 1 or 2 years being a part of our curriculam in our education system will help us deal better against terrorism and help in real life scenario.

Regards,
drifter.



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pistolero
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby pistolero » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:12 am

Dear Timmy,

I hear you. I agree these people came to die. Their mindset is completely different, their moral values have nothing in common with ours, all agreed, but that is them. What about us?

If faced with an challenge, which we automatically accept we wont win, means we have already lost. In terms of their training, im quiet sure that their handlers would have told them to clearly expect little or no opposition from the masses.

If a person is going to stand and shoot and no one is shooting back at the person, he will be bolder, but if you do shoot back, instinct will kick in, and if they are so determined to die and dont move, well then I got a stationery target to take down.

Our discussion is academic, I understand, I have no idea how I would have reacted in this situation. I have no combat training, but as Gladiator Garg points out, nothing replaces Raw Gut. Our system needs change that is for sure! We got the Chinese 10 Kms inside our border and our political masters choose to do nothing. Im sure the Chinese know this and again if we dont defend ourselves we will be abused.

Personally I dont wish to be abused, I would rather have some means to fight back, than no means at all.

Regards,
Pistolero


"Whatever is begun in anger ends in shame."

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seedha.admi
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby seedha.admi » Wed May 01, 2013 3:49 pm

@StampMaster

the attacks of 26/11 film was good. It was good enough to shake my mind. I was saddened by the statement of nana patekar playing the role of joint commissioner that they didn't have any type of training to stop such an attack. Also, I liked it when nana says near the end that Islam is at a very high level and that illiterates like him won't understand it because they're too stupid.
So, what I want to say is it wouldn't have mattered whether anybody had arms or not. What can a individual do if he/she is in a state of panic and doesn't have a proper arms training. Suppose if a person is shooting back at the terrorist in a panicking crowd there's more chance that he/she will hit a moving citizen rather than the actual terrorist. At least that's what I think. What I think is the law enforcement officer on the scene should have proper arms in the storage for such scenarios & that there should be a special team of police that has helicopters which can be deployed faster in a state of emergency. One more thing, like in the film people tend to register false complaints at the times like these making the police unable to take proper decision. We should act smartly not stupidly in such scenarios.


There's nothing black or white in the world. There are just shades of gray.

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seedha.admi
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby seedha.admi » Wed May 01, 2013 3:54 pm

At least I'm proud that our country is different from the others where they kill the terrorists without proper trial leading to public not getting proper knowledge. At least we don't act like the terrorists do. It really sets us apart! We show them proper justice.


There's nothing black or white in the world. There are just shades of gray.

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seedha.admi
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby seedha.admi » Wed May 01, 2013 4:00 pm

Not to point any fingers but Obama did deploy a team to pakistan to kill Osama. Now, we'll never truly know that whether they're telling the truth or they just used a patsy. Also we'll never get to know what was in the mind of that person. Whether he was innocent and that america f***ed him over OR that he truly was a mass murderer.


There's nothing black or white in the world. There are just shades of gray.

Skyman
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby Skyman » Wed May 01, 2013 4:35 pm

Not that we care about the Chinese.But so many people lose their minds over cricket and bollywood.


I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

StampMaster
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby StampMaster » Wed May 01, 2013 10:58 pm

our security agencies are very slow in response, adopt to change and give the best of protection.

All the incidents happened till date- 26/11 attack, benazir bhutto assassin, Rajiv Gandhi or any other plot has been extremely well and uniquely executed. However, knowing such incidents might happen again, our government is hasn't done enough and still continue with the old system of security measures. Our security agencies are not taking the least of measures to weed out terrorism from roots rather instead spending millions on training and buying sophisticated arms. Efficient road side armed policing, frisking at all the areas in a city will surely bring a lot of discomfort to the terror activities. And such simple measures are not hard to implement.


”Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.”

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gladiatorgarg
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby gladiatorgarg » Fri May 03, 2013 10:06 am

sir,if you say that security forces are doing nothing its an understatement,sophisticated weapons and equipments are a necessity,so far as int gathering is concerned we have great source of nucleus data base due to inter agency one-up-man-ship but things are far better now and believe me we are not a police state its a democratic country and if the security forces start frisking on a daily basis we will loose the batlle over terrorism then n there...all that is required is a strong and unbiased ant-terror law and a will to execute it...



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drlizard
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby drlizard » Sun May 27, 2018 7:54 pm

pistolero wrote:I just the saw the movie and read all the opinions expressed here.

A few things stuck to my mind, I dont know how true is it, that Lathi wielding Police actually threw rocks inside Leopold?? To check of someone was still in there?? And what if they were still in there what then?? What would they do?

We all understand that NPB calibers do not have much stopping power, and that too in this case against opposition which would be wearing vests, which can easily absorb these calibers. BUT my point is these terrorists went unstopped and unchallenged! with absolutely no fear of a retaliation!!Coz they knew, no one would have any weapons to fire back!! Hundreds were getting shot and not a single round was fired back by a citizen! NOT ONE!!

Senior police officers say this was once in a life time! We have Force One Now!! God only knows their level of training and preparedness as first responders! But when the shit hits the fan and before the first responders RESPOND! We the people are the ones who are on Ground Zero and will have no option but to respond or die!!!

So how do we respond!! 2 five star hotels 1 Railway station with hundreds of people 1 apartment building and 1 hospital, hundreds of Indians and not even one person with the ability to strike back.

Long Long ago, my boxing coach told me just before I got into the ring with the Railway Champion, was that I needed to standup to him for 3 excruciating rounds, I might not have the skill to beat him, I might not have the punches he has, but I have the will to last 3 rounds with him and when I do get my chance! I should strike and I did!! I lost but yes I hurt the guys pride!! Post the first round he did not look at me as a punching bag anymore, he knew he would get hit. He was more wary and I had a better chance!

For all those innocents who laid down their lives, im sure some would have wanted to give back what they were getting even if it was with sorely underpowered weapons! Atleast the perpetrators would have their morale challenged! they would be defensive rather than overtly aggressive!!

Our Right to Keep and Bear Arms is grossly being abused!! We as Citizens of a free country are sitting ducks! If we dont protect ourselves, no one else will.



Couldn't agree more.
You hitting the railway champ and surprising him?
That's what.

Everyone likes to abuse the weak guy... Until he stands up and punches back. He might still be weak but the bullies know he might sting back.. So they stop harassing him.

RKBA all the way.

Being terrorists isn't much fun when the "innocent and weak" victims start firing back... Right?
:D (y)




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